For the people insisting Rocky was "hard to hit" and had "underrated cleverness"

I find the three points you made somewhat lacking in scope if not strawman-ish. Can't one have a solid opinion of Marciano whilst acknowledging a period of noticeable improvement like Louis did? Foreman improved immensely in a relatively short periods of time under proper tutelage, though granted, I don't consider Marciano to be anywhere near the natural George was.

 

Because you did not. Unless the forum outright cut a part of your post. This is the sole part you've posted bar quotation and video.


-Louis flat out said Rocky was easy to hit
-He said when he fought Rocky, he was crude and had to learn how to actually bob, weave, and punch with better accuracy.
-He also stated he was gunshy and had trouble letting his hands go (for all the people in denial).
[..]
Here's another refresher on how crude Rocky looked. This happened a lot in the fight and Louis made him look pretty bad despite being a gunshy old man.


Not a mention of Louis calling him a vastly improved fighter just a year later, other than the indication (when he fought Rocky) that it's this particular version of Rocky being described.

The very quote you provided is a great source of possible debate. So many facets and nuances of the game to consider. Louis notes his metamorphosis a year later into his career, but on the other hand there are, if I remember correctly, sources calling Rocky the opposite of a natural, who had to make up with hard work, conditioning, and a punch. Is it feasible to become this much better or did his subsequent opposition flatter him? It also naturally leads to investigation of Walcott's opinions of Rocky from their bouts. You could also point that his career would end four years later as undermining the clever and hard to hit fighter people are trying to portray him as (which is a relatively difficult claim to establish, much more difficult than him being difficult to hit clean and flush) ever being a consistently appearing version against at least a solid majority of styles of actual world level fighters.

The thread is titled as if it's meant to provide strong counterpoint to people claiming Marciano was hard to hit and had underrated cleverness, but immediately fails to provide substance and depth expected from such a confident choice of words.

And it may not be directly called a debating forum, but it definitely becomes one when you start a thread in this manner. If debating doesn't let you blow off some steam, don't. At least not after a tedious day.

 

Marciano found away to win. What worked for him.
Those are the most important results.
Also , one must take into account to be
fair to Marciano how fast Louis was.
Even the version that faced him had
better hand speed than most heavy's
in history.
While some overrate Marciano because he
retired undefeated, and he fits the agenda.
Let's not underrate him either .
After all, he did ko Louis.

 

As good a breakdown of Rocky as you'll find. Judge for yourself.

This content is protected

 

It's no secret Marciano improved enormously after the Louis fight, it's heavily documented. He was a crude raw wild swinging slugger. Goldman honed him into so much more. He tied his shoelaces together to greatly improve his balance, put towels under his arms to make him throw straighter tighter punches with no loss of power, greatly developed his left hook, got him punching to the body far more often, tied his right arm behind him developing the left and countless other little "tricks". They did it slowly so he wouldn't drastically change the basic way he punched, with great leverage and power. That was just the offensive changes tho some of those, by nature, helped him defensively.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but keeping a good stance under you, and keeping your elbows in, improves both offense and defense, no?

 

Jones and Beterbiev were far more dominant than Marciano and were fighting young prime opponents not faded guys. What is there on film to cause one to pick Marciano with any confidence?

 

It’s better to watch the film, it wasn’t quite that bad lol but I’ll add that Louis is the greatest heavyweight of all time and the finest boxer to ever be at the weight, all he had left was his mind, I can’t think of many heavyweights who’d have kept Marciano at bay the way even that Louis did.

 

That’s also withholding the fact Marciano is more skilled then Artur by a bit of a margin.