For those of you old enough who saw Tyson before and after prison,were you able to see the decline?

The second Bruno fight masked it initially.

Here was an opponent who was expected to at least give him a bit of a fight, and he was beaten more quickly than in their pre prison encounter.

Of course in hindsight we know that Bruno's condition was the main factor in this.

 

This.
He came out of jail, got himself in to decent shape, knocked over A couple of easy guys.
Then he beat Bruno who by then was done.
Scared the crap out of Bruce.
Then at last met the Real Deal.
That's where it went all Pete Tong.

 

He was fighting differently as early as the Bruno 1 fight. It's hard to imagine Frank landing that many punches on, say, Tucker-era Mike. Beginning also with Bruno 1, Mike wasn't as full on, inexorable as we knew him earlier. It was after that fight that Mike seemed to pull back even more once he realized his opponent would last more than 4 or 5 rounds. He began to get, for want of better term, more cautious.

Overall it was a profoundly less effective style that always inspires me to go back and appreciate his prime style. Mike was a better defensive fighter early on than typically given credit for. Of course, he's also a great example of the best defense being offense lol. He was focusedly mercurial, a real marvel! The prime Mike was a h2h headache for practically anyone who wasn't Louis, Ali, Holmes, or Foreman imo (not confident in picking a winner between him and Liston)

 

I'd say NO, in that Tyson was STILL Iron Mike,

his decline was in his psyche and well being, as the Wolves & Devils around him were trying to mess him up in every way imaginable - King, the Media, Givens, Desiree... most people continually pressured & harrassed will explode or implode.

That killed him and not his ability I'd say, you can't focus fully under such strains.

 

Nice one.

 

Started before prison. Defense degraded, less combinations, increasingly flat footed.

 

‘Those of you old enough’ to have seen Tyson pre- and post-prison, haha.

Yes, I’m old.

 

Couldn't have watched him in his pre prison years as I hadn't been born yet. Ironically, the first boxing match I ever saw was Tyson vs Holyfield 2 PPV as a kid.

In hindsight, it's kind of hard to figure out what matches his team could've got him to better prepare for Holyfield. Tyson was the type of guy who tended to fire on all cylinders as soon as the bell rung and often blasted his opponent out of there quickly. So to really get Tyson prepared for a grueling, tough opponent, you basically had to match him with a grueling, tough opponent. A guy who was durable and skilled enough to keep Tyson honest and give him some rounds without running too much of a risk for an upset.

I understand the Seldon and Bruno fights were for the belts, but they did absolutely nothing for Tyson in terms of shaking off the ring rust and getting him back to some semblance of a good form. They saw him dispatch 2 "world champions" with ease and thought he was surely ready for the big showdown with his most difficult challenge yet. I think perhaps in between the two title fights, Tyson could've fought the always durable McCall who would test out that gas tank over the long haul. He also could've perhaps fought Mercer who could be dangerous, but it would've tested Tyson's resolve in a fire fight with an opponent whose both tough enough and strong enough to hit back and make Tyson earn it. I think those 2 fights could've given his team a better idea on where exactly Tyson was at in terms of skill, sharpness, technique, etc and would have him battle ready.

As for when Tyson declined, I did watch a lot of his fights in order on YouTube. One thing I noticed was that even in the Mathis jr fight he he had started to become a bit of a head hunter, sometimes failing to focus on the body until people reminded him. He also would wind up for one big shot rather than throw tight combinations. After the Holyfield fights, he had become a simple brawler whose only world class assets were his power and hand speed that fizzled out after about 4-5 rounds.

 

Tyson was rushed into title fights after prison. He won them but he really needed work. He needed to get his timing & stamina back. Short guys suffer when they start slowing down but I think Tyson just lost the style that made him successful. Upper body movement after punching, coming in low, pounding the body. He started standing up straighter & winging big shots looking for a quick KO.

His most effective days were before Bruno 1. After prison, he just relied on power. His defense was sloppy.

 

Being realistic, even with all his amazing boxing skills, Tyson was not actually made for and extended stay at the top.

A small size explosive rusher relying on peekaboo defense, blinding speed and agility, but with suspect stamina and endurance is not exactly the recepit for a long championship reign.

To stay at the top, a boxer like Mike needed to be at 101% physical and mentally. Slowdown just a little, slip just s little, and his edge was gone. As several posters have already mentioned, even before jail there were warning signs on Tyson, and not just versus Tokyo Douglas.

IMO, even without the jail term and all the crappy baggage surrouding Tyson, I doubt he was going to be top dog for long.

 

Well, we saw. And, you were definitely not right.

 

You could see the decline after the first Bruno fight, when he stopped doing the peek-a-boo and the combos became fewer.

By the time he got to Ruddock, he was a one-punch guy.

 

Amazed me that so many people who saw post prison Tyson were predicting him to beat Lewis. I was just a kid at the time and was debating with grown men trying to explain to them the Tyson who they think is gonna step in the ring is not that same guy. Tried telling them lewis would destroy him with ease but Tyson fans couldn't let the nostalgia go.