Foreman - As Bad Against Boxers As Norton Was Against Punchers?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Russell, Oct 21, 2010.


  1. Russell

    Russell Loyal Member Full Member

    43,650
    13,048
    Apr 1, 2007
    A potentially controversial topic, not that I give a **** if it ruffles peoples feathers. :lol:

    Anyway, legitimate inquiry here.

    Did George Foreman struggle as badly with opponents whom chose to strictly box and move against him as Ken Norton did against huge punchers who pressured him?

    Both failed against their arch-nemesis styles, the issue in my mind being that Foreman is given far more slack then Norton. I suppose being out-pointed clearly/embarrassed by Jimmy Young and other boxers isn't as devastating as being knocked out in the first multiple times. Glaring weaknesses on both sides, though a pick your poison type I suppose.

    I guess part of the question comes down to Norton being potentially unlucky to face three of the hardest hitting heavyweights of all time in a short period of time, a golden age of Heavyweight bangers.

    But if I had to guess I'd say there are far more heavyweights whom wold be Foreman's kryptonite style wise, especially comeback George, then top shelf heavyweight bangers who would blast Norton out. Comeback Foreman was very, very easy to outbox.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

    A summary of their failures against their weakest style clashes.

    Fighters not known for their boxing ability but who adopted a boxing oriented strategy against comeback George were Tommy Morrison, whom beat Foreman. Also, Alex Stewart, whom took George to a razor thin points verdict that some feel he won.

    You can through Schulz in there as well.

    Foreman's first career losses are well noted, against Ali, and Young.

    Norton's are equally well known, crumpling under the power of Shaver's, Foreman and Cooney.

    So, thoughts?
     
  2. Duodenum

    Duodenum Boxing Junkie Full Member

    11,604
    290
    Apr 18, 2007
    Unfortunately, the entirety of Foreman-Denis is not on youtube at
    the moment, but coming between Ali and Young, this is probably
    George's best performance against a box and move stylist.

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqPgLQxottU[/ame]
     
  3. Russell

    Russell Loyal Member Full Member

    43,650
    13,048
    Apr 1, 2007
    Your opinion on the questions in this thread beyond that, Duodenum?
     
  4. Duodenum

    Duodenum Boxing Junkie Full Member

    11,604
    290
    Apr 18, 2007
    Well, that one time with Denis, a big, tall, undefeated cutie, he seemed all right. Jimmy Young was in an entirely different class, but what he showed against Denis suggests it can't be conveniently generalized that a quality stylist would automatically be always be his poison. We really needed to see the youthful Foreman compete more against this style of opponent.

    Denis is what probably convinced Foreman, Clancy and company to take on Young. Ultimately, Foreman-Denis is an overlooked performance in George's career, and I do think that bout is the margin by which Foreman's resume against boxers surpasses that of Norton against punchers. Foreman-Bugner would have been interesting after Young-Foreman, and I believe George could have registered his first 12 round decision over Joe.
     
  5. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

    8,618
    1,886
    Dec 2, 2006
    I think we should consider the Peralta fight too.
     
  6. Surf-Bat

    Surf-Bat Boxing Addict Full Member

    6,736
    97
    Jul 20, 2010
    Young George was often obscenely wide and arcing with his punches, leaving himself badly exposed. This is something a slick counterpuncher could feast on. Throw in that questionable stamina and GF may very well be in trouble against some of the more talented boxers in heavyweight history, champions or contenders.
     
  7. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    28,139
    13,095
    Jan 4, 2008
    Tough question since he only met two class boxers in his prime. But I think his lack of balance and technique would leave him vulnerable to many technical boxers. He was very good at cutting the ring down, though, something he seemed to forget to do against Young.

    Liston with Foreman's ability to cut the ring down would be a truly fearsome prospect.
     
  8. Duodenum

    Duodenum Boxing Junkie Full Member

    11,604
    290
    Apr 18, 2007
    Foreman-Peralta I is on youtube (as are Goyo's first wins over Thornton and Pastrano in 1963 leading up to his title shot at Willie), but George's NABF Title rematch with Greg would be the more revealing viewing of these two ten round tiffs.
     
  9. Bummy Davis

    Bummy Davis Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    23,667
    2,153
    Aug 26, 2004
    I think a solid chin nullify s Foreman strength and of-course a chin he can not hit. A prime Foreman did not have stamina and from the Lyle fight (the one Puncher he faced) up to that point he could be hurt and hit by a puncher ( Lyle was better than average) The Ali and Young fight show that George could be gassed out of a fight

    George still had a lot of POWER and his best lies between his physical prime - career 1 and his stylistic prime - career 2
     
  10. Stevie G

    Stevie G Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    25,132
    8,586
    Jul 17, 2009
    A lot of the thing about Foreman's performances against 'boxers' is based on how he did against Ali and Young. He was very much work in progress in the Peralta fights,especially the first one. Muhammad was The Greatest,and Jimmy was a very slick stylist. Foreman was still in his physical prime,when he fought Young,but his mind was n't right. I believe it's a myth that George would lose against all artful boxing types. I'd back him to beat Gene Tunney,for example.
     
  11. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

    55,255
    10,354
    Jun 29, 2007
    A quick boxer with, some reach, a good chin, and solid defense was a formula for disaster for Foreman. These types are seldom caught in the early rounds. Foreman hit a ton, but his poise and power tended to evaporate as the rounds press on.

    If Lyle opted to box a bit more rather than trade, he very well could have upset Foreman.

    Foreman did his best work fighters who lacked footwork and mobility, or with fighters who opted to trade or could not fight moving backward.
     
  12. DonBoxer

    DonBoxer The Lion! Full Member

    8,063
    34
    Apr 28, 2010
    I dont think it is at all comparable to Kenny Norton vs punchers. Foreman still had the ability to close off the ring and throw some bombs and he could potentialy do this to most grade B boxers.
     
  13. Russell

    Russell Loyal Member Full Member

    43,650
    13,048
    Apr 1, 2007
  14. TheGreatA

    TheGreatA Boxing Junkie Full Member

    14,241
    157
    Mar 4, 2009
    As is the case with Norton against punchers, Foreman was not all together terrible against boxers, but the greatest of the lot would always give him head aches.

    He did outpoint and later stop Peralta, who was a clever jabber that Bonavena and Ron Lyle couldn't easily solve. The sheer power and strength of the man, as well as his ability to cut off the ring in his younger days, would overwhelm most boxers, but the likes of Ali and Young weren't going to be taken out with pure power as they had handled big punchers before.
     
  15. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    112,986
    48,067
    Mar 21, 2007
    Surprisingly few spaz-outs in this thread, given the subject matter.