Foreman said this about Frazier

The Frazier of the Ali fight was top form, the one that foght Foreman was not. I am not sure that he would have beaten Foreman but I give him a far better chance

 

Why?You don't sound like a Frazier hater.Just someone that respects George's power and is expressing his opinion.This isn't the General Forum,you know.:good

 

Nicely said.:good:good

 

Interesting point...would Foreman have lost to Young had Ali not destroyed his invincibility myth?

It's not a stretch to think that Foreman would have held the title right up until Tyson came along had he not lost to Ali, he was awesome until that night in Zaire, same as Tyson was until Douglas.

As for the Frazier remarks...Foreman says this kind of thing all the time. All we can go on is the results, and history tells us that Foreman was more than Frazier could handle.

 

I agree with this

 

I'll take Popkins school of thought. Fighters don't get shot over night, Foreman destroyed a good version of Frazier. He'd have beaten any version.

 

Probably. George is like that. But, you never really know what's going on in someone's head, I guess.

 

Frazier was honest too when he said: "George hits a ton".

A prime George's power will always find the boring in prime Frazier
and hurt Joe to the point that Foreman will win.

 

Foreman would have owned frazier regardless!

 

It is a stretch. It's a massive stretch.
It spans 12 years and assumes Foreman could see off the challenges of a whole generation of new rising contenders.

Before facing Ali, Foreman just doesn't have the depth of opposition to gauge him as potential invincible against the best in the world over the next 5, 10 or 12 years. A win over Norton on top of the title-winning effort against Joe Frazier, and that's about it. Doesn't cut it at all in regards to how suited he'd be as a long-term champion taking on all-comers.
And that's being kind, because I'm following you in ignoring the weaknesses shown in the Young and Lyle fights.

If you want to make him champion from 1973 - '86 he'd have to see off the challenges of men like Lyle, Young, Shavers, Bugner, Holmes, Weaver, Ocasio, Tate, Coetzee, Berbick, Cooney, Cobb, Dokes, Page, Snipes, Witherspoon, Tubbs, Thomas ..... or at least some of them, among others. And beat them consistently year after year.
And for a man who made two careers out of primarily feasting on second-raters and unranked fighters I see little reason to think he could.

 

In reality if Frazer went six or eight rounds and was knocked out after gassing himself I could agree his training would have made the difference this argument rings true for Tyson/Douglas but going down six times in two rounds it's obvious he just couldn't handle Foreman no matter what condition he was in.

 

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtlVM-ibIyY[/ame]


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcmMPBT8NAY[/ame]


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PkyZ_C7LqM[/ame]


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvR7PeRuCzU[/ame]

 

Paranoid man aren't i? Haha

 

Disagree.

Foreman said the same things about Jerry Quarry and Ron Lyle too. In fact, a fairly green George was said to be handled by Quarry in a sparring session in 69/70. George is very complimentary of his opponents, especially the fighters he beat, no denying that.

He didn't catch the same Frazier of 1971 or earlier that fought with the near pace of a middleweight against Ali, FOTC. Frazier fought smarter against George in Uniondale the second time, 1976, practically blind, and wearing contacts, though still getting KO'd in five rounds. This after a grueling 14 round TKO loss to Ali in Manilla.

Styles do make fights but I don't always believe it's the case with respect to certain fighters. Unless prime Foreman KO's prime Frazier inside 5 rounds, which more than likely happens based on history, Frazier has more than enough middle to late round power to hurt George and put him down. If you consider the weardown factor as the fight goes along, it's not out of the question for Frazier to be able to hurt George considering his best rounds are after the early rounds when warmed up.

George is the favourite, prime for prime, but I wouldn't put it past prime Frazier to take George into the later rounds and hurt him. Foreman doesn't tee off on a prime Frazier as easily as he did against the fighter who showed up in 1973. Even that version of Frazier did OK against George for the first minute or so of the first round before George started the grabbing, pushing and shoving off tactics to give himself more space.

 

I agree, the Lyle fight shows more strength than weakness in Foreman overall. I think it's a positive on his record.
But on the other hand, on another given day maybe Lyle would have prevailed. Maybe if it were for the championship, or maybe in a rematch. Plus, Foreman would have to face other boxer-punchers of Lyle's ilk had he remained champion for 6, 7 or even 12 years. That's what I meant.
:good