Foreman v Tunney 15 rounds.

Prime, if you did so merely because of what I said, you'd have ought to be smacked upside the head. (As I also should be, just for agreeing with you simply because you opined it, my friend.:thumbsup) This should be a quality discussion.

While Tunney's bell was really only solidly rung by the Long Count knockdown, Gene did take a substantial body beating from Dempsey without difficulty in both matches. Carpentier had no success getting his blindingly fast right home. Tommy Gibbons was an excellent veteran (albeit aging and distracted) boxer with two handed power who got dominated. Foreman had massive power, but he was an inferior boxer with considerably less speed and stamina than Carpentier, Gibbons and Greb.

Personally, I don't consider Kinshasa to have been that close a fight, whatever the scoring. Ali's recall immediately afterward was detailed and precise. It wasn't like Shavers, where Muhammad lost his memory of some of the event. I think George was in serious trouble at the end of round five, and could have been finished off as early as round six.

His jab would be in George's face continually, and it was common for him to unload three or four at a time in rapid succession. Excise round seven of Young-Foreman from their bout, and yes, I do think Jimmy was a comfortable winner. Young was retreating, but also getting off first with his double jab, as well as countering to the body. George would be doing the following, but who would be initiating the punching? Furthermore, who was the easier target? With respect to reach, we know who was faster and used straighter punches. Gene's left would have Foreman blinking even at feints. Work rate would be huge in Tunney's favor, where Young was rather economical even at his most active.

Tunney (who along with rivals Greb and Loughran appears to have been genuinely fearless) wouldn't have been looking for a place to hide, just spots from where he could unload while George was continually repositioning himself.

Rope a doping is not something in Tunney's repertoire. Gene got his kicks out of making people miss, like his idol Corbett, not by demoralizing people by taking their best shot as Ali did. With the relatively slow and free swinging Foreman, Tunney could have a field day. If he did get into trouble, we saw how fast and frustrating he could be at Soldiers Field in getting away.

George was always susceptible to having his eyes swelled and vision impaired, and Tunney definitely had the jab necessary to compromise his ability to see. I do think his punch clearly surpasses that of Young and Peralta, and may compare favorably to Ali's.

Muhammad was not overwhelmed by George's physical strength, but was able to manage him largely to a standstill in the clinches. Ali was not a weightlifter, but utilized traditional wood chopping and lumber work to develop tremendous tensile strength and muscular endurance. Gene famously worked as a lumberjack for a year, specifically to strengthen his previously vulnerable hands, wrists and forearms. Unlike Ali, he also did some weight training. (Strangely enough for a champion known for his speed of hand though, Tunney reportedly did not use a speed bag in training. Go figure. Ali reportedly was too vain about his physique to hammer it with a medicine ball in training, yet allowed sparring partners to pound on it, gave away body shots in competition, and was renowned for his ability to take it downstairs.)

:thinkI have no good answer to counter that with. The sheer overpowering logic and articulate force of this final point in Foreman's favor is simply too compelling to ignore. This just changes everything!:conf (Sorry, P. I think the flask of VSOP brandy I'm sipping as I type this is making me flippant. Good times! Payback at your convenience. :cheers)

 

Ali fought a gambler's fight, he gambled that he could absorb the shots that he could not avoid by blocking , laying on the ropes,and that George would run out of steam before his body ran out of resilience.Ali was 32 ,do you think he would have used those tactics in his prime?
Tunney would most certainly not be there to take those rib crunchers, he would be on his bike ,all the while spearing George with that quick accurate jab ,and banging that rapid right cross in, when he saw the openings,and George did not move his head, he relied on his gloves to avoid punches.
IMO. You have to weigh up whether Tunney's superlative footwork would keep him one step ahead of George's mighty power, or, would Foreman's great facility to minimise the ring acreage with his cutting off ability, eventually corner the Marine, and land those devastating salvoes of bombs.

 

This is an intresting match up. gene was a wonderful boxer but did not fight too many heavyweights. Gene fought with smaller gloves than foreman ever fought with, against young he wore 10 oz gloves, I doubt gene used gloves as big as 6oz in real fights. With bigger gloves could gene hit with enough authority to keep george off him?

 

Well, let's just say: when Duo talks, I listen (though may not always heed
:thumbsup)

Typical boxer-vs.-puncher matches always offer the scoring dilemma: what counts most: volume or heft. Ali may have been landing more, but any one of Foreman's bombs --those awful body blows or the sword-like swipes upstairs-- were potentially fatal for Ali or any other fighter.

Which is relevant to Tunney: Gene took punishment downstairs, but a diminished Jack Dempsey very nearly erased 17 rounds of frustration and dominance with one excellent combination upstairs: George-Foreman-like long swipes that chased and caught Tunney all across the ring.

This attack is reminiscent of Foreman's demolition of Norton, who was moving away when Foreman suddenly lunged forward and caught his retreating, sticking-and-moving target.

We know well that the Foreman who fought Young under Gil Clancy was much more measured than the search-and-destroy monster under Sadler. That beast was, in my opinion, one of the top-ten head-to-head heavyweight fighters of all time, and evidence is how neither such a tough, proven all-time great brawler such as Frazier, nor a powerful boxer/puncher such as Norton could contend with him: KO2.

Again, had Ali in Zaire been a little less tough in resisting punishment to the body, a little less able to land solid straight rights and combinations, a little less iron-chinned (witness that hellacious uppercut absorbed in Round 7), had a little less punch, Foreman would have prevailed as expected.

I'd say Tunney, for all his greatness, falls slightly behind Ali in these very departments, so, in my view, the future does not look bright for Gene.

Again, it is concerning to me that Foreman caught a floating-and-stinging Ali right away, within 2 minutes of combat, in Zaire. Apart from the awful African canvas, Ali quickly realized Foreman's cutting-off ability: no heavyweight can last 15 rounds taking 3 steps for every one of his opponent. He thus improvised the rope-a-dope.

Dempsey followed Gene around and played into his hands. A flittering Gene would soon have a bull in George Foreman breathing down his neck. The results would not be pretty.

A brief mention of styles may be useful: old Dempsey bulled his way in head-first, which facilitated Tunney's work, as he had a ready target for his excellent combinations. Dempsey could never deal with it.

Foreman would fight tall, his head considerably away from Tunney's darts, and with two huge forearms raised up in defense. This is why I mention reach: Ali was able to get in swift, snake-like right leads to the head, but Tunney, two inches shorter than Ali and with three inches less in reach, will be hard- pressed to get to Foreman without risking annihilation from Foreman's short jolting uppercuts or sweeping hooks and crosses in counterattack.

The above reasons are why I like George in this bout; it is not my personal perference for round Texas preachers who peddle perhaps-overrated grills.

And thank you kindly for mentioning payback! So glad to have been a small part of enjoyable moments! What a thrill it'd be to discuss boxing with you over a bottle, as I'm confident you've forgotten more fascinating facts and figures on the sport than I may ever know! :cheers

 

I like Tunney in this one

 

As flawed as prime 1973 / '74 Foreman was in the ring, he still was big, powerful and strong... I see Foreman falling behind Tunney on points for 6 or 7 rds as Tunney rides his bike like a cycler in the tour de France, but Foreman eventually cuts him off and begings to land serious leather... I think Foreman catches and stops Tunney in around 12 rds...

NOTE:

Foreman never wasted shots on guys while they were moving away like rabbits. Foreman only threw wild and crazy punches when the dude was in front of him or laying on the ropes... Foreman would press Tunney early, but Foreman would be poised in trying to cut-off the ring on Tunney and trap him in the corners or along the ropes...

Foreman TKO 12 Tunney....:bbb

MR.BILL:hat

 

yes, no doubt about it, tunney would be winning on the cards, but finallly foreman would catch him. foreman did cut the ring pretty well, no boxer could run from foreman during all the fight, ali or young never did beat foreman running (or dancing). ali took shots on the ropes, and no ****ing way tunney would take the shots from foreman like ali did.

 

i like your post but i think you're underestimated tunney's touchness a bit. the first fight with greb was, by all reports, a ****ing bloodbath where tunney was brutalized over 15 rounds but never capitulated. he was a hard *******

 

Twenty five years following this sport and the only "debate " over Foreman/Chuvalo I ever saw was from a few on this Board. What wasted punches were you referring to? Foreman was teeing off on Chuvalo's face time and again. The bout was stopped to save Chuvalo's life. Truly absurd ...

 

foreman would flatten tunney foremans powerful body shots would be to much for tunney to handle i think foreman would break him in two:yep:think

 

Thanks. I believe I fully acknowledged the toughness of the Fighting Marine.

But now that you mention Greb, can you honestly compare his offense to George Foreman's at heavyweight?

Yet, look what he did to Tunney.

 

foreman would cut the ring down after a few rounds.then...........bang

 

George Foreman KO8 Tunney

If Dempsey can keep Tunney on the canvas for about 8 days, then Foreman can do much more.

 

I don't think Tunney would even have to keep moving that much after the first 3 rounds. He'd be catching Foreman with so many sharp counters, stiff right hands to Foreman's open target of a head, and popping him hard off balance, Foreman would be dizzy and reckless after 3 or 4 rounds. Tunney would then be able to sit down even more on his punches, duck Foreman's wild swings, and give him a beating. I don't see Foreman lasting much more than 8 rounds, if that.
Of course, Tunney would have to take a fair bit of punishment, even if the blows are easy to block, smother or anticipate, they're still going to hurt. Tunney was a better defensive fighter than the 1974 Ali. He punched just as hard, and had a better variety of punches. On the down side, Tunney wasn't as big as Ali, and would have to use a lot more brains than rely too much on his toughness.

Prime Foreman was a beast, but he was young and foolish and boxed like an amateur. He had a few tricks, spinning and parrying and bullying, but I don't think he had enough smarts to avoid be picked apart by a tough cool professional of Tunney's class.

The older Foreman was a bit smarter, but way too slow.

 

foreman would be able to fight the top 10 from those older eras 1 at a time on the same night and come up with 10 kayos:think