Foreman vs Chuvalo question

Perfectly wrote, I was about to put up a post but can't add or better anything you said.

 

One sided fight and good stoppage. I'll never understand all of the Chuvalo love. Gatti was better than Chuvalo in every way and nobody seems to overestimate his ability the way some people do with Chuvalo.

 

Well...you should understand the love for Chuvalo. He was a determined tough battler who was always in magnificent shape and always gave 100 percent. His life was marked with huge tragedy with several of his sons dying from suicide and drug overdose and his wife also taking her own life. The love for Chuvalo stems not only from his courageousness in the ring but how he faced terrible adversity outside the ring.

 

You nailed it, great post.

 

Are you so desperate for an argument you have constructed this passionate mocking response to a post I made 3 YEARS AGO?

I haven't watched the fight in 3 years and I'm not going to revisit it now because you have an itch from this ancient post you want scratched, I stand by my impression at the time of the posting. It looked like a premature stoppage to the eyes of the spectators, including myself. That doesn't mean "bad stoppage" or Chuvallo wasn't in trouble. Its just Chuvalo gave the impression he could have fought on, in vain or not.

From what I recall the footage did not show Chuvalo spitting up blood, badly staggered, nor did he appear to be near death at the time of the stoppgae as he was protesting the decision. Nor does it show his corner asking for a stoppage, if that's the case the ref didn't deserve to be "booed". Though its likely fans in the arena couldn't have seen or known that. Happy?

 

Chuvalo was getting belabored.

 

When did they let you out again ?

 

Gatti did not take a shot like Chuvalo ... George was a limited boxer for sure but it's pretty hard to find a tougher guy ...

 

When you started laughing at your own jokes?

When you started replying to posts I wrote years ago to desperately get the attention from me you crave?

Don't worry it won't happen again, your back on ignore.

PS-Also seems despite years and years of you posting trash, Marciano is still recognized as an all time great. Don't worry, you'll change the world one day.

 

This wasn't the kind of thing Mercante would stop without prompting from Chuvalo's corner. He had to have seen Irving Ungerman climbing up towards the ring to stop it, apparently unnerved by Lynn Chuvalo's panic over her husband's situation. Chuvalo had his back to his own corner, where Arthur would have seen Ungerman signaling him in short order.

Mercante had refereed Chuvalo before, his win against Doug Jones, and seen him stunned previously in his MD loss to Bonavena. He later let Foreman-Frazier I go on longer than many thought he should have.

It looks to me as though Dunphy was overstating the effectiveness of Foreman's attack, and that Chuvalo was riding out the storm. He'd previously demonstrated against Frazier that he knew when to bail out of a match. Yes, he was tough, but never stupid, did punch back against Foreman when he got openings, and seemed perfectly clear headed in the post fight interview.

A number of posters here believe Ali-Lyle was stopped prematurely. In that one, Muhammad unloaded 46 punches with no indication of any attempt by Ron to return fire. Chuvalo DID fire back, and was actually in the process of launching a right hand when Mercante stepped between them.

For whatever it's worth, Foreman launched around 48 [hard to make a precise count with the camera angle] punches starting with the initial stunner. Chuvalo was mainly kept busy defending himself, but he returned fire with a right hand after the first 15 thrown by Foreman. After another 23 unanswered punches by Foreman which see Chuvalo retreat from Foreman's corner to his own, he unloads a right, takes a jab for his trouble, then uncorks a left before Foreman fires off the final eight attempts prior to the stoppage.

Most of the shots which knocked Chuvalo's head back were hard jabs, not all of which landed. He was absorbing some hay maker rights to the body, but the big rights and hooks to the head were either not landing or not connecting solidly. For the most part, Chuvalo wasn't firing back simply because doing so left him open. But Foreman was punching at a rate which would have expended him rapidly if it continued. Chuvalo was riding out the storm, and showing signs of coming back from out of his own corner. He did not purposely turn away as he had against Frazier. That's why he was so upset at the stoppage. Foreman's attack was relentlessly furious, not surgically controlled. My sense it that it was Foreman who was saved by the stoppage, not Chuvalo, and that the Canadian's strength, stamina and experience may well have sparked a dramatic turn of tide in round four.

However, Foreman did what he did, risk the exertion of relentless pressure from the moment his opponent was staggered, and it paid off. That is what it is, so the ends justified the means. Years later, after he stunned Jimmy Young, he wouldn't be so fortunate.

 

A decision has to be made in a fight to avoid the Benny Paret fate .. Foreman was landing monster shots on Chulave, time and again. Who's to say when the next one might not have killed im ? This was in fact one of George's most effective pre-title performances .. he was not wild. He was sharp. He was in terrific shape and punching fluid. How many punches did you cont Chuvalo throw once hurt that were close to effective or even land ? In addition, I saw zero evidence of Foreman tiring ... George at that point was a mental case and much of his fatigue came when he metally believed he was ineffective, not when he had the confidence of knowing he was crushing a guy. This was nothing like Ali- Lyle where after stunning Lyle Ali hrew dozens of arm, slap punches, many of which missed ... Foreman was crushing Chuvalo ...

Chuvalo turned against Frazier because a bone in his face was broken. We all know Foreman hit harder than Frazier and I believe without question the fight was stopped to save Chuvalo's life. I would like to see another example of a fighter being hit that many times, that hard by that caliber of puncher and not have it stopped. Again, the ref had no choice because a fatality was not out of the question. Any comparison to Young is way off as Chuvalo was a career catcher and Young was a cutesy who excelled in defense first ..

You had a murderous puncher, a much younger man, slamming full force and landing mostly against an aging catcher ... you had a highly concerned, highly experienced ref watching this closely. In addition and possibly most decisively, Chuvalo's own corner was screaming to have it stopped ... what more is there to say ?

 

Great post, and for the most that's what I remembered from the footage. Some tall tale distortion going on this thread if you noticed, see Houndi suggesting "his mouth more than likely from that hook was pouring blood." became hegrant's "he was spitting up blood!" If this thread continued in such fashion, poor Chuvalo would be internally hemorrhaging from his nose/mouth/and ass at the time of the stoppage.

Some good information too I wasn't aware of, explains why this fight went down the way it did.

And yeah, I've seen people argue Pavlik/Taylor I was a premature stoppage despite Taylor taking repeated flush shots to the head, unable to keep his hands up, leaning into the corner for support, and slumping to a seated position in a stupor moments after the fight was called. So this stoppage being questioned as "premature" shouldn't be that offensive to people.

 

Very good stoppage. Chuvalo was being abused, his eye was already almost closed, he was eatin jabs like popcorn, and he wasn't throwing anything back of note. No doubt he could have survived, but he was already in a deep hole and taking a beating from one of the scariest punchers ever. Sadistic to keep letting him take a continued shelling.

 

Dunphy said he was spitting up blood ... if you listened instead of talked you'd pick up on that ... you also left out Chuvalo's own corner was screaming to the ref to stop the fight ... guess they always stopped George's fights early ..

 

I give Chuvalo heaps of credit for toughness. He might even have gotten out of that pinch and made it into the sixth round. Hell, on sporting grounds he deserved to do so, as he was throwing back and, amazingly, seemed in control of his faculties.

But if I were the referee, I would save that man from his own uncanny toughness. He was in for a beating only he could take. A man's body's got a breaking point.