Foreman vs. Frazier - How Would Frazier of Done...

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Russell, Jan 3, 2008.


  1. Russell

    Russell Loyal Member Full Member

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    Against an older, post comback Foreman?

    Was the power similar enough to still spell doom for Frazier?

    Was the chin being that much better another mark against Smoke?
     
  2. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Foreman hit harder in the 70's. The come back version of Foreman was more of a patient boxer, and far better of a technician. The old Foreman used his jab to set up his punches. He was forced to think, and had a much better punch selection, fundametals of defense, and Ring Generalship.

    I suppose this fight would be close because Frazier could only fight one way. The older Foreman proved he was still durable vs Holyfield, Stewart, Morrison, and Moorer. I suppose Frazier could win, but he would need to fight they way Morrison did to win. But Frazier didn't have much range, nor did he win rounds by sticking and moving. I beleive the older Foreman had enough power to hurt Frazier, but would he have enough stamina to chase him down and finish him in the mid to late rounds? Hard to say.

    Hard fight to call. I'll go with Frazier on points under the assumption he doesn’t fight foolish. I think Foreman would score a knock down or two along the way, but not have enough stamina to finish Frazier in the later rounds.
     
  3. ChrisPontius

    ChrisPontius March 8th, 1971 Full Member

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    We're taking about a prime Frazier vs an old Foreman here? Frazier destroys that Foreman. For Foreman's sake i hope it goes over 12 and not 15, or he'd probably be deformed worse than he was against Stewart.

    You have to separate the old and young Foreman and see them as different fighters. Because they were. The old Foreman was a "good" puncher at best. Frazier beat plenty of good punchers; Bonavena 2x, Quarry 2x. Foreman went the distance with every decent* opponent in his comeback, usually barely squeezing out a decision against mediocre opponents (Stewart, Savarese) or getting a straight-out gift decision (Schulz), or just losing one-sidely (Morrison, Holyfield).


    *I don't consider Cooney, who was had one fight in the last 5 years, a loss to a lightheavyweight and coming off a 3-year inactivity after never having beat a live contender to be a decent opponent. Gonzales never accounted to anything in the pro's either.


    If you pick the old Foreman over a prime Frazier then you should also pick someone like Samuel Peter or Ron Lyle over him. The latter two are probably better than an old Foreman.
     
  4. smokin joe

    smokin joe Member Full Member

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    fraizer was past his prime when he fought forman anyway
     
  5. Steel Kelly

    Steel Kelly Active Member Full Member

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    He surely wasn't past his prime in January 1973?
     
  6. brownpimp88

    brownpimp88 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    its just an excuse, frazier would never last 12 rounds with foreman.
     
  7. round15

    round15 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    205 lbs in 1971 to 214 lbs in 1973? Watch the first two rounds of the FOTC and then watch the first two rounds of Foreman vs Frazier 1973. I see a completely different Frazier. Take nothing away from what Foreman did against Frazier in 1973. He did everything Sadler and Moore told him to do in order to beat Frazier and he did. My belief is that Foreman didn't beat the very best Frazier and he knew that. There's a reason why he chose to fight Jose Roman and Ken Norton thus avoiding the immediate rematch clause with Frazier. Foreman himself admitted that Frazier was the only fighter who had him scared on two different occasions. First in 1973 he didn't believe he could beat Frazier even though Sadler and Moore were confident of victory. Secondly in 1976 he was having serious doubts of fighting Frazier again after watching Manilla, admitting Frazier was not a "scenic rest stop." It took a Joe Louis pep talk to boost his confidence before the 1976 fight in Uniondale.

    What would have happened had Foreman fought a Joe Frazier that was at or near his prime weight and focused on defending his title?

    #1 I don't think Foreman blows Frazier out in two rounds.

    #2 I do think Foreman has Joe on the canvas early in the fight more than once, based on Joe's tendencies as a slow starter.

    #3 I don't think Foreman hits Frazier as cleanly with Frazier showing the same head movement that gave Ali trouble.

    #4 I do think Frazier would have been able to bang George's body early and wear him down in the later rounds.

    #5 I don't think Foreman would be able to shove off and push Frazier away consistently and illegally like Mercante let him in 1973.
     
  8. Marciano Frazier

    Marciano Frazier Well-Known Member Full Member

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    35-0 reigning world champion Moorer doesn't count as a "decent" opponent?!?!?

    I pick Frazier over a '90s Foreman, as that version of Foreman was even slower, noticeably less active and not as powerful, and his terribly soft midsection would give Joe plenty of fodder to work with. I do think you're selling old George short, though.
     
  9. Russell

    Russell Loyal Member Full Member

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    Yeah, Moorer's nearly criminally underrated at times.
     
  10. ChrisPontius

    ChrisPontius March 8th, 1971 Full Member

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    Sorry, i forget the "except for Moorer" part.
     
  11. smokin joe

    smokin joe Member Full Member

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    the foreman fight was 2 long years after the fight with ali, he balance spped and abilty to take a punch wasnt the same, this beleif is confimed in the alo rematch, and other fights, hence the thrilla in manilla in 75 they told me you where fimished joe""
     
  12. yancey

    yancey Active Member Full Member

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    Frazier was DEFINITELY past his prime in January, 1973 against Foreman.

    Frazier's actual peak was sometime before the FOTC, imo. Sometime around 1969 into early 1970 with the Ellis fight.
     
  13. yancey

    yancey Active Member Full Member

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    Totally agree with all 5 points.