Foreman vs Ike/Tua

Well I wouldn't dare get into technical arguments about weight with the guys on here, my only experience of comparing strength is playing football (soccer to Yanks!) all my life, and the experiences of everyday life when growing up.
Now while I concede you must be able to build up strength through training etc. I think strength is also a natural thing and varies in individuals no matter what their size.
I was an average sized centre forward in my youth 5' 10" 12 stone and could hold off some huge brick **** house centre halves a couple of stone heavier, yet I could also find myself out muscled by some small almost puny looking defenders.
We all know what it was like growing up doing the usual things you do as young kids testing yourself against each other in various things, and there were always some freakishly strong smaller lads.
I wouldn't have thought just because fighter A looks more muscular and is a stone or two heavier than fighter B, it doesn't necessarily follow that he's stronger, of course in a lot of cases he will be, but there'll be plenty of cases where he isn't.

 

Thank you. Notice how People people who actually competed in sports and did some strength training are alp saying the same thing?

Only a dumbass with no experience would automatically think that the guy with shinier muscles or looks bigger is the stronger of 2 similarly sized guys without actual strength records.

 

The evidence is that guys like Lyle (who did 1000 pushups a day), Norton, chuvalo, etc who were all freakishly strong well conditioned shredded athletes couldnt budge foreman and got roughed up and Kod. Literally not 1 singls opponent ever made him back up, outmuscled, or outclinched him. Not 1. The fact he did zero strengty training, weight lifting, or calisthenics other than chopping wood and hitting the heavy bag further emphasizes just how freakishly strong he was.

Even a fat old foreman was called the "strongest man he faced" by a shredded olympian body holyfield. Foreman obviouslu had ridiculous natural strength.

You are giving a guy who had 20 fights against mostly unimpressive competition the benefit of the doubt despite the fact we have ZERO records or measurments of Ike's strength training or lifting ability. If you have some, post them. Otherwise your argument about him being stronger just for being heavier holds no water. Youve obviously never done any grappling or strengty training so cut it out, you dont know what youre talking about.

Even if he were, what is your point? Its not like he'd just rag doll him around with no effort. Care to explain how he actually wins the fight? Foreman is still an inch taller, has a better jab, equal if not greater power, a wider punch selection, way more experience, etc.

 

What's the evidence that those guys were freakishly strong? Not sure how Lyle's (solely self-proclaimed?) 1,000 pushup a day routine would translate to functional boxing strength, which I assume would be more a function of legs, core, and then maybe lats.

I could be mistaken but I interpreted the original point re: Ike's presumed strength as not arguing that Ike would use his strength to manhandle Foreman but rather to point out that it negates one of the biggest advantages that George enjoyed over most of his opponents.

 

Ike KOing Chris Byrd was a good win. Nobody could really catch Bryd at that time. At least the level of guys he was facing up to that point. It was a nice lefthand. Perspective though.
Just coming from a power perspective Ali knocking out Oscar Bonavena in round 15 was a more impressive display of power. Ali not even considered a puncher from that weak little 70s era showed more power that day.So it is still up in the air as a how well Ike could punch. He was a good boxer he had some tools power still a question mark cuz he never follow through on his career.

 

So a big lack of the type of strength you are talking about didn't hinder Frazier from beating guys possessing much more of it?

 

Foreman is freakishly strong in the ring and is a perfect example of someone much stronger than their raw weight would dictate. It's all their on tape.

 

Not sure that Frazier had a "big lack" of strength but yeah, I'm sure he knocked out some guys who were stronger than him. Functional boxing strength is obviously not the be all end all in boxing, and I don't think anyone has ever suggested otherwise.

 

Ike only fought green byrd and tua

 

The Foreman myth has grown. Now he can KO both Tua and Ibeabuchi in the same night? Foreman couldn't even put away 3 palookas in the same night during that farcical circus act he pulled in the 70's.

 

There was a video of Foreman in the mid 90s perhaps as a preview of the Saverse fight pulling a Jeep with a Harness. It might have been up a hill but I not positive on that. He was certainly pulling a jeep though. Maybe it was Briggs.
Big George was kind of strong. Uknowwhatimsayin?

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Is Foreman the myth this time? Or is Ike the myth in this case?

 

Good morning JT, excellent post mate.

Styles make fights, even in the clinch.

An example... Foreman was able to maneuver Frazier around at will, using two hands to shove Joe backwards ( illegally ) and stepping to the side to get positioning on Joe when Frazier came forward. Ali on the other hand had all kinds of problems keeping Joe out of his face, Frazier even famously lifted Ali in the air when he had Ali cornered in the FOC. The only way Ali could handle Joe was to illegally wrestle Joe's head.

You would think Foreman would have rag dolled Ali but in reality Ali handled George easily in the clinches and seemed as physically strong as Big George.

I am having a quiet chuckle @ " couldnt bench a cotton bud " hehehe.

Cheers All.

 

Frazier vs Chuvalo is a classic example. Chuvalo was a really strong guy and would have been able to bench, squat or clean lift WAY more weight than Frazier yet Frazier had Chuvalo on the back foot for most of the fight and had no problems at all with Chuvalo's physical strength.

Cheers All.

 

1-their well documented intense workouts and physiques are an indication. Especially chuvalo who, until he met foreman, never got outmuscled or oushed around to my knowledge. Guy was a tank. Norton was also built like a greek god and had decent strength himself. If you check my previous posts in this very thread I posted a video detailing slme of nortons hellish training and how he walks around at 230. He also trained in the military a d playes football.

As for Lyle, 1st of all if you want to accuse him of lying you must have evidence. Lyle wasnt known to be a liar and in fact was pretty humble in some interviews. His jacked prison body is typical of inmates who do nothing but work out all day. My dad actually works at a correctional facility and when i was in there i saw some guys who had the huge shoulders and upper torso strength of Lyle. Coincidence?

As for Ike Ibeabuchi, obviously a man who is 235 lbs with no fat is physically strong and his bout with the formidable tua proves it. But that's...literally the ONLY fight we have of him facing a legitimate big name physically strong heavyweight. And it could be argued tne fight was a draw with no knockdowns. Neither man was the clear superior over the other. Now keep in mind Tua was "only" 226 in this fight...incidentally right around what Foreman usually weighed in the 70's.

So do the math. 5'10 short armed stocky 226 guy fights dead even with Ike, cant be pushed back or outmuscled or bullied in tbe clinch or on tne inside. WHERE is the evidence based on this fight (or any fight) that Ike's so called herculean strength would "negate" Foreman's strength? A guy who was taller than both Ike and especially Tua and weighed as much as they did in several fights with no fat (again, tua in the ike fight was 226)? Help me out here.

It seems to me Ike is getting the benefit of the doubt solely based on being a few lbs heavier (he was 235 against tua).