foreman vs jeffries

I think McVey and Suzie Q were pretty much on the money. Jeffries NEVER fought a man like big George> Most of his opponents were considerably smaller than him while George fought in the era of true heavyweights. The young Foreman fought Frazier, Lyle and of course Ali as well as Norton. 3 of those men were at one time or another HW champions, all over 200lbs. During his comeback George fought Cooney, Moorer, Holyfield and Morrison, all of which were again HW champs at one time or another. With all due respect to Jeffries, the fact is he didn't quite face the same calibre of heavies. Fitzimmons and Corbett were puny by modern standards and didn't punch as hard as the above mentioned fighters. Plus the style of fighting was quite different back then. A lot of hanging back and waiting to clinch or counter which enabled 20 plus round fights. Foreman in his forties had to go toe to toe with Holyfield for 12 hard fast rounds and didn't even sit on his stool between rounds! Absorbing hundreds of clean hard COMBOS from a 6'2" 208lb prime Holyfield is quite a bit different from getting hit every few minutes by a 167lb near 40 Fitzimmons or a 170lb Corbett. Could Jeff survive an onslaught similar to Foreman Frazier I and II ? Or a war like Foreman/Lyle against a true HW? Truthfully we don't know nor will we ever. He might have as he was certainly big and strong but for the most part untested in his prime against good young big men at least his own size. I'm not dismissing him in any way but I think it's somewhat impulsive and shortsighted to say that he would handle Big George, a man who has proven himself against men much bigger and younger than the men Jeffries faced.

 

I see a similar outcome to Foreman-Chuvalo.

Foreman busts up Jeffries and stops him in the 5th round.

Foreman TKO 5 Jeffries

 

I agree watching johnsons fights with burns and ketchel how he throws these men around like rag dolls, he certainly dealt with the smaller guys much better in his prime than jeff did. When jack johnson grew to 205lb muscular no supermiddleweight of that era could come close to touching him. Burns and ketchell were young too.

 

I disagree I think ketchell was a more effective heavyweight than choynski and fitz, he just didnt get a chance to prove himself with his early death. Ketchell fought a dead even fight with a 180lb sam langford the # 1 heavyweight contender. I think ketchell also hit harder than bob fitzimmons

 

It definitley would have been interesting if he had lived throughout the rest of his career. I've heard from some that he was shot from all of his partying and all the tough fights he'd been in, but that's not for sure. I heard once, not sure where, that when he was killed he was about to make a fight with Sam McVea. Now that would have been classic. I think he was better than Choynski for sure, they both had power, but Ketchel could take punishment much better.

 

Just like Foreman-Chuvalo.

 

Jack O Brien thought so.

 

Not to play devil's advocate but ive often wondered about the Langford Ketchel fight,and thought perhaps it was a handcuff job,Sam may have wanted to look comparatively harmless to Johnson,though ,,I think Mendoza put up a clipping describing it as a hard fight,I don,t know,seems there would be a ko result to me.

 

Jeffries and Foreman were about the same size and weight. Foreman was a little taller and longer. Jeffires was a little broader and wider. If Jeffries fought in Foreman’s era, he likely out weight Foreman. Therefore, the size is even here. Jeffries did fight Jim Barber, and Barber had a rep as a strong man. Not sure of Barber's weight though.

Foreman may have looked like superman, but he was not. Ali KO'd him. Lyle nearly KO'd him. Cooney rocked him in round one, then himself was Ko'd in the next round. In addition, Jimmy Young who hit on Corbett’s level floored Foreman. While Fitz was small, he could hit. Nat Fleisher said Fitz hit harder than Dempsey and Louis. Even if Nat is wrong by a small margin, I still think Fitz hit harder than Frazier, Moorer, or Holyfield.

The think we have to ask ourselves here is 1 ) Do you think Foreman wins early. I don't. and 2 ) How much will Foreman have left after round 5 ? I say not much, and I'll go with Jeffries to beat Foreman in the mid to late rounds once Foreman gasses. Foreman was a bully type and front runner. He was sloppy, and not much for defense. And we know his chin was dentable by good hitters. Jeffires was faster, mentally tougher, smarter, better on defense, likely more durable, and had 3x the stamina. For arguments sake he hit at least as hard as Lyle.

 

I dont think Foreman is a bully type ,actually I think he has showed commendable courage in some fights ,especially as he went in to his mid 40s.
Being buzzed by Cooney a tremendous left hooker ,is no disgrace and George was in his 40's at the time.Corbetts heaviest weight was 188 when he was fighting Jeff at the age of 34,young weighed 213 for George. Young probably hit a bit harder than you suppose ,I saw him drop John Gardner in the Uk,Foreman was suffering from heat exhaustion,and hallucinated in the dressing room after wards. it wasnt just Young's power.Jeffries stamina is tied up with the fact that fights were fought at a much slower pace,than in modern times,plus he wasnt hitting on big 220 lbs heavyweights,or taking shots in return,the same can be said for his chin ,he was durable against the men he fought ,we dont know he could have taken the shots of Lyle,Norton,Cooney,Morrisson,Moorer,Briggs ,Holyfield, Coetzer ,Cooper .I tend to think he could but we cannot state it with any certainty.Saying that Foreman was wobbled by Cooney when he was 20 years past his best ,has the same relevance as Jeffries was dropped and kod by Johnson when he was 10 years younger than Foreman, at least George stayed on his feet, plus Cooney was a monster hooker ,while Johnson wasnt a power puncher at all.For me the likely scenario is that Foreman stops Jeffries on a tko due to multiple contusions and cuts,if Jeffries defence was all that why did he sustain such terrible facial damage? Don't say it was the gloves Corbett hit Fitz all day and only gave him a nose bleed.

 

The diference is that Jeffries held his own against elite wrestlers in reall matches.

Frank Gotch said that Jeffries could have been a world class wrestler if he had chosen that path.

 

Janitor,can you provide a source for Jeffries real wrestling matches? Or is this just hearsay ?

 

This post has a few mistakes and misconceptions in it. I will address it later.

 

Well that must take the cake for the most pompous reply yet.

 

It is prety well documented.

He fought Rober on the undercard of one of his boxing matches. I will try to dig up the source.