Foreman vs. Liston

Liston had all the tools: jab, technique, physical strength, punching power, chin,
iq and determination. However I believe you are selling Foreman short. The 40-0
version of Foreman was a force of nature, Ali didnt plan to rope a dope, Foreman
was simply a juggernaut whose physical strength, punching power and chin combined
to produce an almost unbeatable fighter. It would be Sonny who would have to survive
Foreman's early onslaught. If Sonny lasts the first 5 or 6 rounds he will pick George
apart with the jab and KO him. Tough to call. No one is finishing George, Iron Mike,
or Ali early. For your info they sparred when Foreman first began his pro career or earlier, Im sure someone on these boards can clarify. Ive read here that Liston handled
George, and was the only guy to back George up. But yes the Wepner quote is spot on.
Im from Bayonne where Wepner is from as well, and I believe he remarked the
same on a radio sports show that my friends did. That Liston hit him the hardest, and
that he felt Liston would beat anyone. I can't decide.

 

Two big punchers anything can happen. A high contact, brutal fight. With that said when two sluggers meet I would take the guy that is the better boxer and the one who sets up his bombs better. In this case I believe that to be Sonny Liston. I just think he punched a little sharper and was a little tighter defensively than Big George.

It`s likely that George Foreman would forget to use his jab {though he had a good one} Sonny always remembered use his. Stamina would be another area that I would give Liston the edge. If the fight goes past 5 or 6 Foreman started to lose some zip.

 

George had an excellent chin. We are talking prime, 40-0 George, who floored that model?

 

My money's on Sonny.:good

 

After the 1968 Olympics...Big George was booed a lot by the crowds after lackluster showings....beat a shopworn Joe Frazier in 1973...KO'd Joe "King" Roman...KO'd a chinney Ken Norton...then ran out of gas against a past his prime Ali in 1974...after fighting one of the dumbest fights in history. Hardly a resume of an all time great. Granted he could hit like hell...but so could Shavers....but he had stamina problems as well.

 

I don't consider that Foreman fought a "dumb fight" against Ali in Zaire. It was just that George did n't really know any other way. And it's obvious why. His modus operandi had worked perfectly until that point. It's just that Ali presented him with problems that he'd never encountered before.


George and Sonny were arguably the most physically intimidating heavies ever. It's hard to figure out who would have actually won. Both men could hit like a wrecking ball and they had solid whiskers. The first one who could mount a sustained attack on the other would prevail.

 

I think Foreman would KTFO of Liston. I don't care about these little stories of how Liston backed Foreman up in the gym, or how Foreman was scared of Liston, or what Foreman said, or what Wepner said... none of that means shlt! Foreman was better than Liston.

Liston was very good, great actually, but I think he gets overrated on this forum. He never beat a really good "big" HW.

Machen and Folley were very good small HWs. 6'1" at the most and about 200 Lbs. They both had good overall skills but neither had good HW KO power, neither had a great chin (Machen seemed to be more durable, although Johansson stopped him in 1). Liston stopped Folley in 3 and won a hard fought decision over Machen.

Liston stopped Patterson in the 1st round twice. Patterson was also a very good small HW. He was more explosive than Machen and Folley. He was also faster, but he was not more durable. Patterson was down more times than any other HW Champ (20).

Williams? Who gives a shlt? Williams was nothing special. Who else did Liston beat?

Johnny Summerlin W8 x2? Marty Marshall 2 out of 3 (L8, KO6, and W10)? A washed up Mike DeJohn KO6 and a washed up Nino Valdes KO3? Henry Clark, Chuck Wepner?

 

Come on man! Foreman would have stopped Quarry in 2 or 3 rounds. Oscar was a very tough guy but George would have dominated him for a decision win or late round stoppage.

 

As ugly as the Lyle fight was, it did show imo that no one could outslug George.
George remarked in ring mag a while back that Lyle was the strongest he faced He (Lyle) was like "Im just as big, bad, and strong as you are". Sonnys best bet would be to
fight a technical fight. Liston fighting with a broke jaw speaks volumes of his toughness
though. Perhaps a prime Liston is too durable and had been through too much in his
life that the whole "never quit" factor comes into play. No ones taking a dive in this one.

 

I think Liston could have taken him.
I think a prime, conditioned Liston, not intent on taking a dive, could probably have beaten anyone who ever fought.

 

That is nonsense. Listons ability to absorb pain, and indeed the courage with which to do so is indeed admirable. However what made him QUIT against Ali was the damage to his pride, and ego.

I don't care if he was 27, 37, or 57, the Ali he fought in 64, and 65, would have made any version of Liston look like a ponderous old man. Getting peppered with shots, swing wildly and hitting thin air. He was made to look stupid and couldn't handle it.

Furthermore I just can't see him being mobile enough to box and move against the Foreman up until the Ali fight, who could club anyone to the canvas with sheer brute force. There is no comparison between Foremans power, and that of Williams, or indeed any of Sonny's other opponents IMO.

 

Liston appears to have the tools...but I think George outfights him. Foreman was freakishly strong, and KO'd the tougher comp. It is a mind bender though...