Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Dance84, Mar 9, 2020.
wallcott has nothing to do with this debate then.
Walcott is an opponent of marciano, possibly his greatest performance. Of course he's relevant to the debate. This is like saying Ali isn't relevant when discussing Frazier's h2h abilities.
Basically yes, that's much better math.
How on earth could you possibly deduce that from my comments? He was certainly done by the Ball/Boyle fight, obviously.
Even a cursory study of Lyle's career would show that due to obvious reasons he got a very late start in boxing.
He was 29 when he entered the amateur arena and turned pro at 30. This obviously led to less wear and tear at 35 than your standard pro fighter and saw him prime for Foreman.
He showed an obvious and marked decline in 79 which was noted at the time.
Yes I agree in so much as Resume goes Walcott must be included as an asset but in so far as using it as proof that Marciano can be stretchered out after one round I don’t think so. Not if people don’t support Braddock as evidence of Joe Louis succumbing to a similar one round knockout mishap.
Do you think they are only basing their 1st round prediction on the Walcott KD?? It's been expanded for you in the simplest of terms. Foreman has form stopping ATG level fighters that have never been stopped in early rounds. Marciano is a come forward fighter, just the way Foreman loved them, and is at an immense size disadvantage against one of the strongest heavyweights ever. He would not be able to back up Foreman and would be pushed around with impunity. Foreman was a force of nature and had immense power.
Louis is an altogether different fighter to Marciano and is at less of a size and reach disadvantage. He is also the best puncher in history and can fight in a variety of ways. On top of this he could be demonic when hurt.
Your comment about it being accepted as it being as likely to happen against any other ATG does not hold water whatsoever. It has been comprehensively pointed out to you that it is a styles and size thing. Guys like Lewis, Holmes, Bowe (guys that have or haven't been stopped early) etc would have a better chance of getting out of the first round or two than Rocky. It's not impossible they wouldn't but they'd be more likely to.
Not at all. The odds on Marciano getting stopped in a round or two would not be immensely high rest assured. They would be quite short comparative to other speculative matches or matches that did actually happen.
They are certainly not impossible to predict when you have guys like Tyson and Foreman involved, particularly when the opponent involved is riiiiiight in their sweetspot.
Tyson knocked out an ATG that fit right into his sweetspot in a single round for starters.
Tho he had 49 fights fights Rocky had a stunted career and like some others never fought past prime. Good on him for a fine retirement of course.
Given you say Foreman would be favorite and you yourself would personally have Rocky as the underdog i would expect you have voted for Foreman obviously.
Yeah, that's probably the right way to say it.
The over/under would be an under. So most of the money would be going on the first half of the fight. There probably wouldn't be a lot of difference between 5-6, 3-4 and 1-2.
Foreman would obviously be the favourite.
In other words, an early knockout of Marciano by Foreman would be one of the most popular bets and among the shortest odds to occur prior to the fight, probably.
I understand that this "doesn't mean it would happen" before duffus reads this and feels the need to point that out
The smart money (and vast majority) would be on a short fight, absolutely. The vast majority of money would be on George.
Yes pre-empt that rebuttal for sure
Couldn't have put it any better, cheers John.
No realisation ( admittance ) that Foreman hits a damn site harder than Braddock.
He won't learn or change his tune.
I can't even bring myself to mention the buffoons name.
I will simply refer to him as the short hairdresser.
California weight lifters work the arms only for the beach look- when heavyweight fighters age they should use weights and Foreman used much of them when he made his comeback, also learned much from Archie Moore on defense and conserving energy- Jack Dempsey also used wall weights- pulleys )- I also been in gyms through the 70's 80's 90's etc. and I met many of the old timers so it wasn't a surprise to them when Ali KO'd Foreman - it was a surprise to me although I knew Ali came from an old school boxing mentality. Ali always said the muscle guys are easy to beat if you know how.
My thing is this - even though some guys are huge and muscled, some are very athletic, a chin is the same once an opponent can get to it- In Ali's case he let George gas out - Young followed the plan- When Lyle dropped and hurt George it was because George was open to right hands and Lyle had the guts to fight back and land showing George could be hit and hurt. Norton walked in and got it hit and froze- Frazier was nothing near his best form of fitness after FOTC and walked in and got hurt and never landed anything worthwhile.
When and older Foreman fought an older Dwight Qawi, I was very surprised Qawi who was 5'6 was able to land on Foreman and Dwight had very little heavyweight power. I expected a wipeout.
a prime Joe Louis is a perfect example of a perfect heavyweight champion but he Marciano, Dempsey, Ali, had to be prepared to fight 15 rounds.
Lennox Lewis was a very fit Big man- so was Primo Carnera, David Price, Anthony Joshua but once hit a chin is a chin.
Foreman had more than just power, he was a champion but there are 2 worlds of the career of Big George - first career and 2nd - I blend the both but both had strengths and weaknesses.
I agreed with a lot of things that you said here but it has nothing to do with the topic that we are debating. Foreman was naturally a bigger heavier guy than Joe Louis and i hope that you admit it.
Btw you are improving, years ago you was a bit troll talking about Foreman. Keep it up
I don't see Rocky prevailing over George, as brave as Rocky would be. His style is all wrong for Big George imo. He gets punched to defeat inside the distance by a bigger, heavier, stronger, more powerful man.
Only came back to laugh at you, and the other rabid fanboys.
At this point, they're just taking anything, relevance be damned and trying to twist it to fit their agenda.