Foreman vs Walcott

I agree. His story throughout the 1930s From Blackburn, to getting Typhoid, to working in the factory 6am to 7 pm(no lunch breaks) to Taking fights on 24 hr notice vs world class fighters, to getting robbed in his first world title shot to winning the world title 4 years later at age 37 is quite amazing.

 

There is certainly a gap in the market for a Walcott biography.

Not sure what the title would be though.

 

Both James Dawson and Arthur Daley reported that everybody around them had Charles the clear winner. Daley does note not feeling to too outraged at the blatantly unjust verdict since Walcott was a sympathetic figure given his age. They both note that this was the feeling among the fans, especially since Walcott was the decided underdog. Sentiment drove the opinion of fans (and apparently some of the reporters the Ring decided to talk to). Daley closes his article with something of a prediction: that Walcott is likely too clever a boxer to let himself get hit by Marciano. I'm looking at the Arthur Daley story right now (I have all the articles in front of me) and he called two rounds even, so the Ring Magazine piece is inaccurate in its description of Arthur's score. Nichols doesn't score the fight but rather repeats the number of rounds Walcott believes he won. Even by the Ring's count 60 percent felt Charles won.

 

Even if only 40% of the observers interviewed thought Walcott won that is close to a 50/50 split.

You cant say that Charles definitely deserved the decision unless you have watched the fight yourself and scored it to that effect.

 

Actually, it was 24 to 20, counting the three officials. Also, they quote Bill Corum as saying he had it scored for Walcott. I think he did radio and so was not considered "ringside press". That makes it 24 to 21, not really all that one-sided, but the majority were for Charles.

 

I will print the Ring poll:

"Referee Zack Clayton scored it 9 and 6. McTiernan 8 and 7. Tommasco 8 and 7."

"Of the 41 writers polled after the fight at Philadelphia, 24 voted for Charles and 17 for Walcott. Here is the way they had it:-----

FOR CHARLES

Nat Fleischer--The Ring--9 to 6
Nat Loubet--The Ring--7-7-1
Dan Daniel--The Ring--9 to 6
Jack Cuddy--UPI--9-5-1
Bill Lissom--Boston Post--7-5-3
Jim Jennings--NY Mirror--9-4-2
James Dawson--NY Times--9 to 6
John Webster--Phil. Inquirer--8 to 7
Al Abrams--Pitts Post Gazette--8-4-2
Tommy Devine--Detroit Free Press--9-4-2
Jack Hand--AP--7-6-2
Anthony Merenchi--Newark Star Ledger--9 to 6
A. B. McGinley--Hartford Times--8-6-1
Sam Green--Detroit News--8-6-1
Murray Rose--AP--7-6-2
Stan Optowsky--UPI--9-5-1
Gene Ward--NY News--8-6-1
Jesse Abramson--NY Herald Tribune--7-6-2
Frank O'Gara--Phil Inquirer--8 to 7
Arthur Daley--NY Times--11-4
Franklin Lewis--Cleveland Press--11-3-1
Sec Taylor--Des Moines Register-Tribune--8-6-1
Tommy Holmes--Brooklyn Eagle--7-6-2
Oscar Fraley--UPI--8 to 7

FOR WALCOTT

Joe Williams--NY World, Telegram and Sun--8 to 7
Al Clark--Harrisburg News--9-3-2
John Travis--Harrisburg Patriot--9-3-3
Charles Einstein--International News Service--7-6-2
Jack Freid--Phil Bulletin--8 to 7
Tony Zecca--International News Service--9 to 6
Red Smith--NY Herald-Tribune--8 to 7
Dana Motley--NY News--8-6-1
Dave Brady--Washington Post--8-6-1
Shirley Povich--Washington Post--7-6-2
Wilfred Smith--Chicago Tribune--8-6-1
Frank Graham--NY Journal-American--9 to 6
Lew Burton--NY Journal-American--11-3-1
Gene Kessler--Chicago Sun-Times--7-5-3
Joe Nichols--NY Times--13-2
Russ Green--UPI--9 to 6
Tony Cardaro--Des Moines Register-Tribune--7-7-1 (edge to Walcott)

 

Wrong section, this would be an edge for walcott too since he was champ

 

The most interesting fact I would draw from this is how many reporters were at ringside for a big fight in those days. Clearly if it is a close fight you can pick and choose quotes into the dozens and really misrepresent things.

Imagine if this is one of those obscure early fights for a famous fighter in which one report says so and so did such and such. Is this reporter the fellow who has Charles winning easily 11-3-1, or the reporter who has Walcott winning easily 11-3-1? Which one is accurate? That is why I think it is difficult to draw conclusions from one or two fight reports.

 

Old Fogey, were Willie Reddish and Lorenzo Pack rated when walcott beat them in the 30s? Pack is an interesting figure, he had a short career with some good wins and decent record. In fact all 18 of his wins came by way of Kayo, he was like the Mac Foster of his era, apparently a terrific hitter.

Im Suprised Sid Peaks and Johnny Haynes never cracked the rankings either. now that I think about it, Haynes might have cracked it once

 

This is a question for Henry. I don't know. He probably does.

Peaks did rate. I know I have seen RING ratings in which he was #6. I don't know about Haynes, but Henry probably does. Give him an E-Mail and then post the info. I would be interested also.

 

Always wanted to see his life story...How he overcame...JJW is one of my favorite heavys and very underated but not by the very knowledgable....He had the slickness...the footwork the sneaky pinpoint punchers and power in both hands...he is one of my favorite fighters...I got to meet him a very nice guy but for a 6 footer he was a tough looking guy wide hands thick neck and shoulders and this was in the 1970's..but a quiet gentlemen...to watch him in the ring was an exception to see a heavyweight with so much skill and power and jazzy footwork

 

I can't help but think that Foreman was just too big for, and ultimately, too powerful for Jersey Joe, one of my favorite "cutie" types. Jersey would do fine for a few rounds, and make George look plenty foolish until he got hurt, then George would just smother him with power shots, like he did Chuvalo, but despite being trickier than Chuvalo, Joe didn't have the whiskers of the Canadian, and would succumb to Foremans assault inevitably...not knocked cold with one shot, like against Marciano, but just clubbed down for a tko. Foreman was just too strong, IMO.

 

I dont know Walcott had a good chin...I dont know how many Heavys could have taken that right hand from relentless Marciano( and Remember Joe took quite a few) and Louis caught him with a 6 peice to stop him but Walcott also had Louis down 3 times and Marciano 1....Foreman was dropped by Lyle and Ali and Young and none of them had the one punch pinpoint power of Walcott...I am not saying JJW would not have to be extra slick and carefull but if he shuffled through the 1st few rounds and landed a few power shots on the wide swinging Foreman he may keep Foreman at bay....if the fight goes past 3-8 rds...the tide turns to JJW and Foreman may get caught with something.....I would bet heavy on JJW but thats just my gut

 

Walcott would win by UD if he chooses to outbox Big George - otherwise, George would club him to a KO.

 

As much as I like Foreman, I would be rooting for Walcott and admiring his work all along if they had ever fought.