Foreman vs Wilder: Who is better

The recent spectacle of Muhammad Ali vs David Price comes to mind

 

Let’s put things in perspective...

It took Ali until 1974/1975 to prove he was indeed an ATG hwt champion.

It takes time to prove greatness that allows an historian to raise a fighter to be mentioned along side fighters who proved themselves already as an ATG. It’s a very high bar.

So far Wilder has not proven himself. He indeed has amateur level skills and concentrates on one thing way too much...his right hand. No matter how he wins vs say a Fury will NOT provide enough evidence to push him to ATG level. He will have to vastly improve as a fighter and produce a long career of significant achievements. Wilder is JUST STARTING this journey.

 

You are oh so wrong. I watched Frazier, Shavers and Foreman live and in person. Foreman’s blows you could HEAR and see were off the charts vs either. Incredible power, really scary power and the person throwing those blows was determined to knock you out...or worse. I’ve never seen a more powerful hwt than George Foreman and even more so he had the determination to put that power to use.

 

George Foreman was a better all-around boxer. Wilder is by far the better puncher. I'd argue Wilder also has the better chin.

Foreman was floored by Jimmy Young and lost. He was floored multiple times by Ron Lyle (who didn't really do that to anyone other than George). Muhammad Ali also knocked out George. And Ali wasn't knocking out too many people by that point.

I mean, if Ali can knock him out, and Jimmy Young can floor him, how was a young Foreman going to handle the switch-hitting, 6'9", 260-pound Tyson Fury?

If Jimmy Young is flooring George, Tyson Fury is finishing George.

George wasn't knocking a lot of guys out late in fights in his first career. If it didn't happen early, it usually didn't happen. He wouldn't be putting Fury on his back in the 12th, like Wilder was doing.

George did have better skills. But George's jab would be nullified by the fact that Wilder is great at keeping his distance and not taking a lot of jabs. Wilder isn't going to be standing in front of George letting Foreman pound away at his sides. Wilder's going to stay on the outside and launch his attacks and then back out.

They'd basically be pot-shotting each other all night. And Wilder had the better stamina and one-punch power (and height and reach).

So I'd lean toward Wilder. But it's more of a pick'em fight. Gotta give George his respect. But I think this is a terrible match-up for Big George. George needed guys to stand right in front of him and let him tee off. Wilder can be six feet away from a guy, and have him on his back two seconds later. George wasn't like that.

It would be similar to Wilder-Ortiz (George and Ortiz are the same size) in how the fight would be fought in bursts, but Wilder-Foreman probably wouldn't go as long because George isn't a southpaw.

Wilder by KO.

 

The answer is simple: Foreman is the best but if Wilder wins a world title at 46 years he will overpass Big George!

 

Double, I've started to warm to your posts and knowledge on Classic but man, Wilder isn't on the level you think

True. But he wasn't an all-around boxer, he was a walk forward tank.

How? Wilder was hurt by Ortiz, Molina and Spzilka, he was also dropped by Dustin Nichols and Harold Sconiers
When Wilder is middle-aged taking bombs from prime ATGs punchers and actual ATGs he'll be comparable

Yes, going the distance with Stiverne, failing to drop Duhaupas, real puncher traits there, even more embarrassing when you consider the fact Povetkin laid Duhaupas out cold and Stiverne was banged out in 4 by a journeyman
Wilder's best two KOs are over Ortiz and Breazeale, not exactly top stuff. When Wilder KOs actual top contenders and not just Cuban hype jobs as well as an ATG 2* he'll be in the running

He was at his worst then, anything between the Rumble and His first retirement is virtually useless as it's not Foreman at his best. It's like using Liston before prison as an example of him winning a fantasy match up, it doesn't actually show the same fighter thats showing up.

1. Lyle KOs Wilder, don't even @me
2. Lyle was a very established puncher, cold KOs over Mathis and Shavers shows

He was KOed by exhaustion, not power it was the heat and the fact Ali has a top 3 ATG chin

It virtually always happened early tho.
They never made it to the 12th, and neither would Fury

Gerald Washington's jab wasn't a fraction of Foreman's, wilder was baffled by it. Foreman would hurt Wilder's thin frame with every punch

Foreman wasn't a pot shotter, he was a walk forward agressive puncher, he cuts off the ring incredibly and would force wilder in positions he wouldn't be to build his power shots

Foreman has a massively better chin, is much stronger in the clinch, it's not going to last as long as Wilder is KOed in 3

 

Practically everyone with a name went the distance with Lyle (or beat him). Manuel Ramos. Jerry Quarry. Jimmy Ellis. Joe Bugner. Gregorio Peralta (twice). Oscar Bonanvena. Stan Ward. Scott Ledoux. Jimmy Young (twice).

Knocking out Buster Mathis in 1972 (in Buster's last fight) was no big deal. Lyle's power is vastly overrated. Lyle doesn't KO Wilder. Lyle doesn't last the distance with Wilder.

And Foreman clearly didn't have a "massively" better chin in his prime. He was down four times against Ali, Young and Lyle alone. And they weren't power punchers.

And if he went down because he was "exhausted" against all of them - in the fourth round against Lyle and eighth against Ali and the 12th against Young - that doesn't bode well for him having better endurance than Wilder, who can drop people in any round. Foreman's endurance isn't even on the same scale as Wilder's.

And George Foreman is LOST against Tyson Fury. Jimmy Young outboxed George Foreman. You don't think freaking 6'9" 260 pound Fury who boxes orthodox and southpaw with ease doesn't? Fury is a half a foot taller than George and has a half a foot reach on Foreman and can fight all night long.

Foreman isn't the bigger man against Wilder or Fury in this scenario. He's the size of all the guys they mess up.

And Foreman didn't knock down anyone in the 12th, especially in his first career. He was gassed by the middle rounds. And that's what we're talking about here. Foreman in his 20s.

And I know Foreman wasn't a pot shotter. That's why he loses. Because Wilder isn't going to stand in front of him with his gloves over his face waiting for George to hit him all night. Wilder is going to stay out of range and potshot George.

Wilder starches George.

 

I think Wilder is a long ways from matching Foreman.

 

Cut off the ring? Who'd he cut off the ring against? Ken Norton, who drug his back foot like a 50-pound weight was attached to it? Or Joe Frazier, who stood right in front of him in two fights? Or those speedsters Chuvalo and Ledoux?

George purposely didn't fight a lot of movers in his career. Because whether he was young (against guys like Peralta) or old against someone like the open-mouthed, wheezing Tommy Morrison, movement always bothered George ... because he couldn't get set.

 

Try Muhammad Ali

 

I suspect that most of the ones who think Foreman is a super fighter are people who have only seen highlights of his wins over Frazier and Norton and then saw him fight in his 40s. If you combine the best of both Foreman careers, that Foreman is a better fighter than he ever was in reality. In his 20s, he was slow, stiff, wide swinging, and he fatigued in a few rounds, in his 40s he learned to pace himself and improved his skills, but he was even slower.

The Foreman fans are repeating what they read, Foreman cuts the ring well - really, when?, Foreman intimidates people - when? I watched the Foreman vs. Five recently, Jerry Judge and Foreman got into a fight after one of the rounds, Judge ended up on top of Foreman and had to be pulled off of him.

Foreman's game was being bigger and stronger than his opponents, today he wouldn't have that advantage against a lot of fighters. Wilder is too much athlete, too tough physically, too tough mentally, too much stamina, too quick, too powerful, Foreman would just be a knockout victim and the Wilder haters would still claim that Wilder hadn't beaten anybody.

Go back to page 2 of this thread and listen to what Ali said about Foreman after the fight. He didn't say Foreman cut the ring and forced him to the ropes, he said he went there because he knew Foreman only had about 2 hard rounds in him and he would get tired. Ali was not complimentary of Foreman at all after the fight, saying he had no power, punched "like a sissy", and lacked stamina. Listen to the interview.

 

He cut off the ring against Ali like Lyle and Bugner cut off the ring against Ali. Ali said a thousand times afterward he realized after the first round he couldn't dance that night. The ring was too soft and wet and he didn't have the legs.

Foreman was terrible at cutting off the ring. Tommy Morrison learned to move for that ONE fight and Foreman couldn't cut off the ring and land anything.

That's why you find literally no movers on George's resume. But a lot of guys like Bert Cooper, Dwight Qawi ... and no 6'9" 260 pound switch-hitting boxers.

 

Don't take a boxers word as Gospel. Fury said Wlad was never any good, we can all disagree there.
And Ali on the first round was trying to do what he did to Liston, he failed and was forced to the ropes, where he did his rope a dope. Do you honestly believe Foreman was a sissy with no power?
Don't watch an interview, watch the fight

 

Ill repeat what I said to Pat, don't watch an interview watch the fight.

Lyle wasn't cutting off **** against Ali, and Ali cut the ring off more against Bugner than the other way around

Foreman was slow as **** then, and about 45 we'll see how wilder does against decent level guys at 45, coz he ain't doing the best with them at 33

Don't defend Wilder by bringing up résumé. There's no movers (or anything decent) on Wilder's. 75% of Fury beat Wilder at his best. The best KO wilder has of a mover is over Spzilka, who has been brutally KOed twice since then

 

The biggest lineal champ in history in his prime who boxes and moves is on Wilder's resume. (LOL) And Wilder dropped him twice.

Who's the best pure boxer Foreman defeated or drew with? The six foot tall former light heavy Gregorio Peralta?

No movers on Wilder's resume? Just the largest and the best alive right now. (LOL)