FOTC Ali vs post-shooting Cleveland Williams

Probably a sloppier version of the first fight, a bigger and stronger but slower Ali stops Williams in 8 rounds.

Prime Williams is a much better fight and matchup

 

Dominates him. This Williams was not very good. Literally shot.

It irks me when Ali gets more credit for this performance than others against better opposition.

 

FOTC Ali beats a prime Williams. Let alone a literally shot version of Williams.

 

Ali still wins. Williams was never the same after being shot.

 

What's your next thought provoking thread cross_trainer, prime Earnie Shavers vs post-car accident Ken Norton.

 

If anything, Sonny Liston deserves even more credit for twice ko'ing (with boss style) a much closer to prime, un-shot Cleveland Willliams....the real Cleveland Williams, and I can't understand why the Williams fight remains a sacrament to the Ali worshippers.

 

Ali humiliates every version of Williams. I’d favour the one against Shavers for God sake to KO Clev. “Big cat” is nothing in the grand scheme of boxing, a blip.

 

What was the real Cleveland Williams?

 

I agree.

 

I think the actual 1966 Williams fight was more about Ali being able to showcase all that he could be against relatively minimal opposition - that being an obviously impaired Williams. The showcase was very similar to Joe Louis’ multi faceted, all round performance against Max Baer.

1935 Louis v 1966 Ali, bring it on!!

There are pros and cons for FOTC Ali vs either incarnation of Williams. Ali no longer has the all important prime legs and petrol but he does however have more ballast and less movement lending to a stiffer punch on average. He’s also a work in progress in terms of assimilating greater punishment - already upholding uncommon resilience.

I would think post gun shot Williams has to logically fare that little bit better against a degraded FOTC Ali and pre gun shot Williams, being so much faster and more mobile than ‘66 Big Cat , naturally does that much better again.

I would guess that prime Williams lands more and more cleanly so early in the fight. FOTC Ali might take some very hard, early “shakers” but he will take them, survive, and bring Big Cat undone with his own steady offense in the meanwhile. No longer untouchable and able to enjoy one way offensives, , FOTC Ali might take up to 7-8 rounds to see Cleve off.

 

I've always felt a prime Williams against Ali would've looked very similar to Williams bout with Machen, with Ali obviously a level or 2 above Machen.

Also regarding Ali-Williams, Ali was upset he was facing this version of Williams and stated he would've liked to face the pre-gunshot Williams.

He even said "their isn't much left is their" regarding Williams.

He also steered clear of Williams on the way to the title.

 

Yeah, Ali was also steered clear of Chuvalo earlier in his career - from a management perspective, rightly so.

Engaging a tough, strong, experienced bruiser like Chuvalo too early (and Williams for that matter) might’ve wrecked or at least temporarily derailed Ali’s march to the title. Guys like Williams weren’t so considerately brought through and when they were good and ready for elevated opposition, no one wanted to fight them. Quite the career stitch up, really.