Hi eveyone! The FOTC, does it get much better than this? It was Joe's finest hour perhaps, and along with everyone else I just went along with the notion that he was the better man that night. But i always had this nagging feeling when I watched it, like, no one seems to ever mention just how close it really was...in fact I always thought the decision could have gone either way. More and more it seemed to me that the winner wasn't exactly clear. So, I scored the fight the other night and came up with the score 143-142 Ali! Russell, McGrain, ChrisPontius, and other esteemed posters on ESB, I would be very curious to know how you guys score this one...I am the only nut who thinks Ali won? :think I will post my round by round scoring below. (sorry for the long-ass message guys ha ha) Round 1 : 10-9 Ali - Muhammad Ali's much higher punch rate wins him the round. Joe only lands a couple of good punches. Round 2 : 10-9 Ali - Ali outpunching Joe again, landing some good crisp jabs to Joe's face in the early part of the round. Joe comes back with some body work, but Muhammad lands some pretty searing rights and lefts. Joe lands a good left hook late in the round but not enough to win. Round 3 : 10-9 Ali - A closer round, Joe puts more pressure on Ali, yet it is Muhammad still scoring the cleaner, more effective shots. Joe digs in and scores some good shots himself, but again Ali's greater volume of connects wins him the round. Round 4 : 10-9 Ali Ali opens fast landing some nice head shots. Joe looks like a sitting duck early in the round. Joe lands a very nice left hook late in the round, but I don't see how it's possible to give Frazier the round. Round 5 : 10-9 - Joe is stalking Ali, putting the pressure on and throwing some good shots. Ali counters by tying Joe up and landing some good 1-2's. Joe is undaunted and keeps pressing with effective agression. Yet Ali continues to land good clean head shots. Round 6 : 10-9 Frazier - Joe comes out fast and scored a wicked left hook to Ali's head. He's swinging for the fences. Joe is in his element now digging in and landing some huge body shots. Ali turns it around a bit and scores some decent punches, not not nearly enough. Joe's round all the way. Round 7 : 10 -9 frazieer Joe comes out hot again but Ali is more effective this round in tying Joe up and countering. Both fighters land some good shots and I don't see much to choose from between the two in this round. Round 8 : 10-9 Frazier - Ali opens fast landing nice jabs. Joe responds with some nice hooks, but looks tired on the inside. Ali is just standing there however playing rope-a-dope and it's impossible to give him the round. Round 9 : 10 9 Ali :Ali dominates the first part of the round landing many punches to fraziers face. Joe comes back in the middle part of the round digging in with some nice hooks to the body and head. Ali closes the round with some vicious head shots and it's his round. Round 10 : 10-9 Ali : Joe is throwing more punches than Ali and they are hard ones. Frazier complains of something in his eye and the two trade good punches. Ali gains confidence and lands some nice head shots, very close but I think Ali did enough to win the round. Round 11 : 10 -9 Frazier : Ali lands some nice lefts to start. Joe continues to bore in and pound the body, although Ali is defending and tying up nicely. Both men land their shots this round, hard to score this one either way until Joe rocks Ali late in the round and hurts him! Joe's round! Ali is definitely hurt! Round 12 : 10 9 Frazier : Frazier comes out fast trying to finish Ali, who ties Joe up. Joe is tired too, but unrelentingly comes forward and lands good lefts. Ali comes back well in the round but not quite enough. Round 13 : 10 10 : Ali seems rejeuvinated and starts the round pumping the jab and landing nicely. Joe presses forward and shows good aggression, but in the end I think it's Ali who lands more clean shots to Fraziers head. Tough round to score I call it even. Round 14 : 10 -9 Ali : An even round for the first minute. Both land some decent punches but both are content to tie up as well. Ali seems to me to be slowly getting the better of it to me however with more effective clean blows Joe's face is beginning to look horridly puffed up. Round 15 : 10 -8 Frazier : Ali is down! Ali is down! Frazier drops Ali with perhaps one of the most perfectly timed left hooks ever! To his credit Ali bounces up fairly quickly. The right side of Ali's face is swollen badly. Joe is pounding away and Ali is trying to survive. Frazier lands a couple more left hooks and it's a miracle Ali can stay on his feet. Definitely a 10-8 Frazier round. Scores : Ali 143 Frazier 142 round 5 I thought could maybe be scored even making the fight a draw.
Frazier won it,I was rooting for Ali,and hoping he would do it but really Frazier deserved the decision,if there was any doubt the last round kd clinched it,"that punch blew out the candles"Bundini.
I had it for Frazier 9-4-2 If I'm generous to Ali I call it 9-6 Frazier. If you want to use the 10-point must system then Frazier has to be well ahead.
I have the fight closer than most do, but I still see Joe as the winner. Especially if it's a ten point must system. If the fight was held just a year or so later, I think Ali would have cinched it though. He tires pretty quickly in this one and doesn't move much. It's to some extent due to the tempo and Joe's relentless pressure, and to some extent to that Ali hadn't regained enough of his conditioning yet IMO.
If you want to score the fight amateur style, giving Ali the same points for a medium or light hit as for a big effective solid Frazier bomb, then yes, maybe you can argue that Ali won. If you take effectiveness and aggression and control and dictating the fight out, and don't penalize for clinching, then maybe Ali won. But that's not how fights are scored, nor should they be scored. You know that old saying - 'who would you rather be?' I think everyone who watches that fight at the end of it says they would rather be Frazier. Just listen to how punch drunk Ali sounds after that fight. Not saying Ali didn't do substantial damage, but Frazier did more on that night. Frazier was a nonstop machine that night, blasting him with brutal body shots and wicked hooks to the jaw that swelled it up substantially. Ali was nearly OUT in the 11th (I think that was the round) and decked in the 15th. Frazier's punches finally wore him down. Fight probably took a LOT out of both guys. I don't think either was the same ever again. Ali simply had the ability and style to adapt to that reality better than did Frazier.
Just an incredable fight. In the first 5 rounds Ali does his best punching ever, with the exception of the Williams fight, but Joe still goes out in the sixth round as he hadn't taken a single punch. That is probably as close to superhumanity as I've ever seen. Ali fights the wrong fight, though. He slugs it out with Joe in the first 5 rounds and punches himself out. He actually did the same in Manilla. Probably figured Joe couldn't take that kind of beating at that stage, a miscalculation that almost cost him his title.
frazier he had evend the cards at about round 14 (and he had a big round in round 11) frazier i dont think won the fight due to the knockdown but it certinly cemented it. a few commentators said that exact words of "cemented" his win
Having Ali 5-0 up after five is disgraceful scoring. None of the judges had Ali AHEAD after 5, all three had it 3-2 Joe.