FOTC..fantastic fight! but did Joe Really win?

I had something similar last time I watched it (yesterday), but other times I've scored more rounds to Joe, maybe 3-1-1 or even 3-2 (in Ali's favour).

 

Frazier won the fight clearly. My final score is 9 rounds Frazier, 6 rounds Ali. I have Ali winning rounds 1, 3, 4, 9, 13 and 14, albeit the 14th could have been scored an even round. Frazier won rounds 2, 5, 6, 7, 8, 10, 11, 12, and the 15th. I don't think Frazier needed the 15th round to win the fight even though the knockdown cemented the victory.

 

If you were able to see the fight "live" in 1971, you saw a confident Ali who was brought back down to earth by a fighter who was on a mission.

Ali for several days knew he had been been beaten, but by the time the fight was replayed on Wide World of Sports, he had created his theory that his patter-pat shots should outweigh Frazier's crushing blows, and Joe's basic control of the fight.

Frazier won the FOTC.

 

Frazier's punching power didn't seem nearly as strong in the Manilla fight as it did in the first fight.

 

I had it 10-5 Frazier. Had it been under a different rules system (the fact that the OP uses a 10-points must system rather than a rounds system shows that he knows nothing about NYSAC rules circa 1971) which laid less emphasis on aggression and most on clean punching, then I can see it going 9-5-1 or even 9-6. Arthur Mercante scored it 8-6-1 Frazier, which I think was a very bad score.

Rules are rules. In most of the rounds, Frazier initiated most of the exchanges, and therefore has to get a lot of credit in the scoring for that. If it was scored on a 10-points must system, I'd give Frazier 2 extra points for the knockdown in the 15th and the near knockdown in the 11th.

They both kicked each other's ass, but Frazier also smoked Ali's.

 

He threw some murderous lefts in the 6th, which were amongst the best punches he ever threw. But, after that round, Frazier's punches had increasingly less on them. That was partially heat exhaustion and partially Old Father Time taking its toll on Joe.

 

My card: 145-140 Frazier

Ali taking rounds 2,7,9,12 and 14.
Frazier takings rounds 3,4,5,6,8,11( 10-8 )13 and 15( 10-8 ).
Rounds 1 and 10 being even.

You could argue Ali got close, but you can't argue that it was a draw or that he won. Clear for Joe.

 

All find and dandy, expect it was score by the rounds, not the ten point system.

 

Yeah, so 8-5-2 by my ledger. Could argue 8-7, but no more I don't think..

 

points wise on a round by round basis Ali could have won more rounds but he actually gave some of the middle rounds away by doing nothing but lay on the ropes and since Joe was working on him I had to give them to Joe. Besides the points though I really got the feeling that Joe was too much for him in the late rounds but Ali still put up a great fight. Joe proved the better fighter rounds 11-15 and judges tend to remember the latter part of a fight more than they do early to middle rounds.

 

If anyone id so fortunate to actually get their hands on a copy of all 15 rounds of the FOTC, then WATCH the damned thing, without any bull**** from the Ali worshipping nuthuggers of ESPN, or their ilk to cloud your mind, and see for yourself that Frazier did indeed win it, and though Ali may have landed more "punches", it was quality over quantity that counted that night on March 8, 1971.

 

When I first saw this, I had Frazier winning by a fairly wide margin.

As I watched it recently, I thought it was a lot closer. Frazier was effectively aggressive, catching Ali with left hooks upstairs and good body shots, but I had forgotten how often Ali landed good shots on Frazier as he came in.

 

Funny, I thought it was close the first times I watched it, but had it as a clear victory for Joe the last time. Great fight though. Too bad it got a bit one sided after the fifth. Manilla was back and forth until the eleventh at least.

 

Frazier controlled it for the most part later on, but I thought Ali did very well with that late rally in the 9th. The 13th was a close round, as was the 14th. Ali had some good moments there. There was one part in the 13th (I think) where Frazier had Ali cornered and they were going it at viciously for a good half minute or so...terrific exchange.

I liked the Manila fight better, even though they were better fighters in 1971.

 

Yeah, there still was some terrific action, but it seems clear where the fight was heading. But that's in hindsight, of course.

I think Ali was more or less the same, but Frazier was a bit diminished and that made the difference. Both fights were very much similar up until the tenth and eleventh, but while Frazier took charge of FOTC from then on Ali did the same in Manilla.

It was really small margins, but they were crucial in this case. I also think Ali fought a bit smarter in Manilla, while Frazier fought as he did in FOTC, which was the way to fight Ali. But he just couldn't keep up that relentless attack in the same way anymore. And then when his left eye closed up it was Ali's fight to lose.