FOTC Frazier v Tokyo Douglas?

The result of the second fight proved nothing. Ali holding on to Frazier without warning and edging a points win. Frazier was better than Ali in the second half of the 12 round fight as he was in the 15 round fight. If the fight lasted 15 rounds it could have been even closer. Frazier in the second fight was a faded version of the FOTC version and had arthritis in his left shoulder. I think this balances out Ali's rustiness in their first fight.

 

I never thought Pac would kill Mayweather, or win.

I'm not sure where you are getting your figures from. Frazier was not stopped FOUR times, and he can't have been "prime" in 1976 or '75 anyway.

Buster Douglas did not hit harder than Muhammad Ali.
His jab was harder but that's all.
Frazier took punishment from Ali that would have stopped Tyson several times over.

Douglas hardly ever stopped good opponents. He wasn't much of a puncher.
Frazier beat loads of Douglas-level opponents.

I understand you have no choice but to overrate Douglas, you MUST overrate him. There's absolutely no other way to save the "myth" of invincible Tyson.
Also you have to claim Tyson was 50% of himself or whatever. And that Douglas was suddenly 10 times the fighter he ever was before or after, or whatever.
You have no choice, I understand. :good

 

Yes, it's that ridiculous.

 

Maybe the question should be FOTC Ali vs Tokyo Tyson?

 

Controversial call but I think I'd take the black guy.

 

Douglas is too big, strong, fast, mobile and stylistically wrong.

 

As much as I like Frazier if I look at it objectively I can find more ways to justify Douglas winning than I can Frazier.

There's a huge size, reach and power discrepancy, so the question is does Frazier have the skills necessary to negate these?

I don't think he has.

 

This fight Ali wins by KO, not TKO but a Tokyo-like knockout

 

Foxy stop taking stupid pills you moron. Frazier at his best was a nightmare for all but the hardest punchers. Douglas fought exceptionally well against Tyson and exposed his weaknesses. Frazier was different in terms of his relentless attack and durability during the FOTC. Douglas would have eaten a lot more leather had it been Joe in there with him. Holyfield exposed Douglas in the following fight and showed that his chin was anything but granite.

 

Well I'm watching the fight right now and he seemed to take everything Tyson's throwing at him and the shots he's hitting Tyson with aren't pitter patter type punches. It seems to me from a strategic perspective, what Tyson tried to do to Douglas, which was get in the inside, would be the same sort of tactic Frazier would be have been trying to do. I don't see what tools Frazier had that even this version of Tyson, never had, other than perhaps throwing more combinations.

 

Yep the newbie is correct!

Foxy you make some good arguments but you are indisputably irrational on the subject of Mike Tyson. Not flaming you, it is just a fact.

I AGREE that Tyson would beat Frazier. And was like Frazier 2.0 in a few respects. Power, muscle, defense, speed...

but while folks COULD follow boxing & believe Frazier survives last 3-that is an extreme & unfair judgement....

YOOU must know more than enough about the sport to know Frazier was superior to Tyson in several respects.

Heart, & endurance, though Tyson was decent in his prime in these respects.
Work rate.
Inside fighting.

Also I dispute that Douglas punched much harder than Ali.
When he sat down on his punches instead of throwing many & fast moving blows, I think they were close.

Anyway overall Ali, at least from '64-75, was clearly better than even Tokyo Douglas.

Yes I think Frazier breaks him down late.
You should only expect a Foreman type thrashing from very very few top sluggers. And EVEN THEN, UNLESS IT IS '73 OR SO, NOT '71, DO NOT EXPECT IT TO BE THAT EASY.

Ooops on the caps, but it worked out.

 

Douglas isn't in Frazier's class, not even close.
Frazier only ever lost to ATGs.