FOTC Frazier vs 1973 Foreman

my thing is they say he would still be destroyed the same when it's no logic saying that sense he was in way better shape before

why is it people cant see matches go different when a person is in shape do people not watch matches

cause I cant see George always running through a in shape joe not when he gave made ali a way faster puncher with better tech a hard time hitting him

It would make sense for joe to have a easier time with George cause he was slower and punch tech was sloopy his power would be the only thing joe has to worry about

if joe is in shape he should have a easy time dodging those sloppy shots he came over prepared it cost him for ali I have no reason to think he wouldnt come over prepared to beat George

and they say George was scared was he scared of thinking how he might have trouble with joe had he been in shape he seen the matches of joe so he knew joe had he been in shape would have been hard to hit I believe

 

Personally i think Frazier's demise is just a lil overstated. He could still pump top 5 guys like Quarry not only after FOTC but after the Foreman loss but second Ali loss as well. Perhaps he could last a little longer but we have to remember he and Futch would still not know exactly what they were dealing with in Foreman.

 

it would help if it was a ref that didnt allow George to do those pushes cause when he wasnt allowed to overuse it he had trouble

he always had trouble landing cause of bad aim but even more so when he cant abuse pushes

I dont buy that lasting longer myth he would last longer and would land more and would make George miss way more

this is if we use his match with ali be replaced with George so in his match with ali is the same year he first fought George joe would lose that match probably sense he would be in the same condition he ended up in

then people would be saying he would always beat George in that mode and always would lose to ali which should have been the way it was in real life sense George shouldnt have won that match cause joe should have been in shape

nobody with any logic would pick on paper a hard to hit in shape joe who can do combos and has great energy to be beat by a bad tech slow puncher who energy doesn't last long and waste punches with bad aim in George
I know I wouldnt on paper

 

Color me unable to understand. Foreman didn't have bad aim at any rate. He couldn't miss Frazier and Frazier is a come forward fighter regardless and George soaked up his hook like it was nothing. Coming forward to George equals all his Christmases come at once. Even when a faded Frazier changed tactics against an also no longer undefeated Foreman George had no trouble at all waiting him out.

 

George did an amazing job, literally maneuvering Joe around physically to get more in range for his bombs. Some folks assume it was just physical bullying, but as Curtis mentions there was more to the method than that.

 

I think Joe finding this out early kind of freeked him out psychologically and probably was another significant factor in his downfalll.

 

Definitely wouldn't have helped.

 

George did always have bad aim which was why he missed easy shots others wouldnt have he was like that with every fighter you can see the shots he missed that he shouldnt have
cause he was so sloopy

you mean as that myth of coming forward as meaning all swammers fight the same which is not true and never has been its mutiple people I have seen who are swammers who didnt just come forward so no that doesn't make sense to say thats all joe had

it's easy to see by watching his matches that he didnt just come forward he used defense and was way better on his feet

cause that 2nd match showed joe making George miss those shots he didnt just destroy him like before cause joe changed up

that 2nd Match showed had joe been in shape he would know how to deal with George he would have trained to know to make him miss and to not just come forward with no retreat how can you not see this it's easy to see

cause all your doing is trying to acting like George had better punch tech and speed then ali which he never did and joe gave ali a tough match cause he was prepared

I have said twice now joe would be prepared and would for a fact make him miss the same as he did ali who had way better punch tech and speed this is logic

it's not logic acting like George who had bad aim
wasted punches
would land sloppy punches at will
would have a easy time with joe in shape a man known for great defense

the pushing joe and turning him to land punches is why George landed so much if he cant do that much makes the match way different

which is why joe gave ali a tough match ali didnt do those moves he had to fight joe the man way not the bully way

 

Keeping it super simple for you it's obvious Joe couldn't take what Foreman dished out while meanwhile Foreman could take what Joe had. It's insane that Joe, even a faded one had to completely abandon his career style and gameplan in order to even last some rounds against George. It's a big admission.

 

FOTC Joe is capable of beating anyone that night IMO

 

Compare how Frazier looked physically in FOTC vs the 1973 Foreman fight. The 71 FOTC Frazier was like a hungry pitbulll that hadn't eaten for a week! He was in superb condition and hard as nails!! The 73 Frazier was flabby, bloated, sluggish--it's a night and day difference. Ultimately, Foreman might still have done a number on him but I think FOTC Frazier has a chance due to his incredible conditioning and fierce drive. If he could somehow survive George's early onslaught he might be able to pull it off.

BTW---Has there ever been a more memorable call in boxing history than Howard Cosell's "Down Goes Frazier"?? (Cosell's broadcast was incredible that night--his peak moment IMHO!!)

 

Joe has a real chance,takes george to late rounds and could well win

 

...and this is precisely why Frazier would not have defeated a pre-exile Ali, as a 1967 Ali would simply not have insulted Joe in the manner that he resorted to post-exile.
Pre-exile, Ali would poke "gentle" fun at his opponents to primarily sell the fight. The only real exception to that was Ernie who you might argue deserved his beating for refusing to acknowledge Ali's name. As for Joe, I seriously doubt that Ali would have done any more taunting than he did to Folley, Williams, Cooper etc.
As a consequence, I doubt the fight - if it happened pre-exile - would have been a life and death affair for Frazier. That combined with Ali's superior athleticism would have resulted in him being victorious.

I always felt that the two main reasons why Ali unleashed his abuse on Joe prior to their 1971 fight was:
1. In order to gain a psychological edge. (This actually backfired and made Joe even more determined).
2. Joe became the unwilling representative of White Conservative America....and they were Ali's main opponent.

 

they dont see that they just say still George would always just dominate even though joe was hard to hit before he fell off it's odd here the way people think

 

Love Frazier but can’t see any version of Joe having any real success.

If only Joe’s defeat in Jamaica was in large part due to Frazier being off peak in some measure. Unfortunately, that wasn’t the pervading feature or takeaway.

Foreman was like the perfect laboratory created antidote to Frazier in every way in terms of George’s exact size, dimensions, strength, power, chin and the style he employed to utilise all of these attributes in balance and to best advantage.

Take Foreman down a notch or two in any given single attribute and maybe Joe has that much more of a look in but exactly as he was, Foreman was Joe’s perfect storm.

I believe Yank Durham tried to dissuade Joe from facing Foreman but Joe wanted the fight and ALL credit to Joe for that.

No disrespect to Frazier but perhaps even the 21 yo, 22 fight version of Foreman that faced Chuvalo would’ve been a perilous match for the real time version of Joe who was on the threshold of facing Ali in the FOTC.

Young Foreman still had a few things to iron out, including better balance. However, the ram rod jab, follow up power shots, chin, power shove and general propensity to manhandle were already in place, all of which contributed to a stunning stoppage of the Canadian Iron Man, no mean feat.

Tougher and more competitive fight but maybe George could’ve stunned the boxing world as early as 1970, such was the degree that he had just the right stuff to beat Frazier, a fighter who otherwise was a nightmare prospect for any other fighters of the era. It’s one thing for another fighter to have your number, but for Foreman to have Joe’s # so thoroughly kinda sucked. A real anomaly in Joe’s ability to successfully compete with all other contenders otherwise.

But then, we didn’t get to see Joe face other punchers like Lyle and Shavers but while they had the punch, they still didn’t have all of Foreman’s other aforementioned attributes so Joe’s success against them can still be reasonably entertained.

All just IMHO, of course.