FOTC Joe Frazier vs Prime Joe Louis

Louis' era was more like this one, when there were good fighters of either color.

In the quarterly NBA rankings, only Walcott and Elmer Ray made it to #1 contender, Ray for one quarter. Lem Franklin, Lee Q Murray, and Jim Bivins all made it to #2. Turkey Thompson made it as high as #3. No black dominance.

Louis of course beat Walcott and later Bivins, as well as John Henry Lewis, who was good enough at heavy to beat Ray. So he beat some of the good black fighters of the day.

I wish all of these guys could have gotten shots, but we should be realistic about the fact that there was nothing magical about being black, and none of these guys were really left on table in the same sense as Dempsey not fighting Wills...or even Holmes not fighting Greg Page.

 

Maybe Frazier wins, maybe Louis wins
This is one of those fights you don't know which fighter will be the winner... but you can be sure the public will be the real winner because will be a fight for the ages.

 

I would say Frazier of the Ali fight in 1971.

 

Frazier's coming in to slug it out with a guy who hits harder, faster, with power in both hands and the sickest combos in the sport.
Add to that that Louis can fight at range, in close and backing away and victory for Frazier becomes even more unlikely.
Frazier is outclassed in every way aside from his chin.
Louis will be wise to come into this fight eager to destroy early than to carefully box Frazier, but then again, Frazier's style will force Louis to engage right away.

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Hi Buddy.
Excellent breakdown of a potentially fantastic battle between 2 of boxing's greatest HWs, I was unsure of the winner up until your post, slightly favoured Louis, but not with any certainty, your insight and awareness has steered me in my choice now, as I have said before someone always puts up a synopsis that is hard to disagree with, yours is such, many thanks Pedro.
stay safe amigo, chat soon.

 

Frazier is coming in too fast, too agile, clicking just an angle this way and that, for Louis to adjust correctly every time and he beats Louis repeatedly to the punch while moving moving. Louis' jabs sail over his head while he dips and that left keeps connecting like the beat of a drum. This fight is won from the waist down. And Frazier's left put's Louis on the deck repeatedly on way to an 11th round stoppage.

 

I think I have read somewhere that Louis himself said, after the Marciano fight, that Rocky may have always had his number. The phrase he used was 'I never liked to be crowded.'

On their day, assuming that day was March 8 1971, who was better at crowding than Joe Frazier.

Frazier would be Louis' greatest victory. Would Louis be Frazier's? I don't know. But I'll take Louis' word for it and say he gets beaten by that version of Frazier but, like Ali, wins a trilogy.

 

Louis also said that he could see all of Rocky's openings but he couldn't move his body to exploit them, neither did he have the power to bother Marciano on the inside by then.
As for Louis being crowded, you can check his fights with Uzcudun, Ettore, Mann, Galento, Godoy and Burman (this fight has no footage though). They are better indications than any quotes or the last fight of his career.
All these men were brutally knocked out and only Godoy made it past the 10th round because of his excessive clinching, which Frazier wouldn't do. (Godoy was also demolished in the rematch).
The closest thing Frazier fought to Louis in terms of punching put him down in 2 rounds.
Frazier will be lucky to see the 7th against Louis.

 

GREAT post--absolutely 100% spot-on!! Could not state it any better than this--well done!! (I have always maintained Ali would have knocked out ANY other fighter March 8,1971 except Joe. Ali was absolutely busting Frazier with HARD shots throughout that fight--Joe's will to win was superhuman!!)

 

Frazier fought in a higher gear than anyone Louis ever fought. Watch the film study Frazier vs Quarry and Ellis etc..
Then watch Scmeling or Braddock guys that gave Louis trouble these guys are running in 3rd gear Frazier is in 5th. No comparison. Louis has a chance but he d have to fight a lot better than he did against those guys to beat Frazier.
Go back and watch the 1970 71 Frazier and tell me what you think he d do to someone like Schmeling.

 

I agree. This would have been a good response to @Pedro_El_Chef post #53 who cites Joe Louis' good performances against a range of fighters as evidence that he could deal with a swarmer like Joe Frazier.

It's a valid point, and I mean no offence or disrespect to Pedro but I agree with you that performances against the likes of Uczudun, Galento, Mann and Godoy don't necessarily act as a measure for how you would do against a swarmer like Joe Frazier in the FotC.

 

Eddie you inspire me to create post #54.
George Foreman's 40 performances against tomato cans gave no indication either yet he turned Frazier into a human rocket.
I wouldn't dismiss Louis's victories over genuinely capable and rated fighters so easily. Frazier is better than all of those guys, that was never in question. The reason I brought up the performances was to point out that Joe excelled against that type of fighter.
If Louis had struggled against swarmers then maybe you'd have had a case, but he didn't. Uzcudun's teeth had to be picked off the canvas after he was hit with what Ray Arcel described as the most powerful punch he had ever seen. You want Frazier to charge into that?

 

Louis would have a field day with him and it wouldn't be pretty. Frazier goes down in 7, towel probably gets thrown in.
FOTC Ali didn't have the hand speed, accuracy or power of Louis and still roughed him up early in the fight. Terrible match-up for Smokin' Joe.

 

Going by the old saying styles make fights I lean Frazier at there best

 

To be fair, Pedro, we are talking about FotC Frazier, not fat, out of shape, overconfident Joe. I don't doubt Louis could have done a very similar number on that version of Frazier.

Other than that, I couldn't disagree with a word. Really fair post and while I am sticking to my initial thoughts that FotC Frazier is too much for Louis, there's nothing in your post that I take any issue with. And I'm going to watch Louis v Uczudun now so you've duly inspired me too. All the best.