FOTC Joe Frazier vs Prime Joe Louis

No worries Ezzard. Frazier was tenacious that night, and it would be interesting to think what Louis would have to do to **** him off like that if that version of Frazier showed up.

 

Ha. Not going to happen, is it? Louis would be nice as pie till he smacks Frazier in the head. After that, it'd be like...

"Damn Joe. They said you was my friend."

"They lied!"

 

Joe turns Frazier's face into mush, and stops him. Even in the FOTC, Ali had the advantage for the first 7 or so rounds. If Frazier starts as slowly here, it will not end well for him.

 

There wasn’t black dominance before end of WW ll because blacks weren’t allowed to fight for the title. All those contenders highly rated yet not even 1 got shot at title. Doesn’t that seem strange to you? Don’t count Louis he as an exception if you don’t know why read up on his history and who backed him. Like all American sports integration started after end of WW ll. All of a sudden guys like Walcott and Archie Moore who d been around for years being only part time fighters cause they had to work and take fights on short notice out of stop shape. Or having to throw fights to white fighters. Those guys suddenly dominated. And they said oh they peaked late. Bull they finally got the opportunity to be full time fighters their backers knew now they might win a title and make them some money. By the mid late 50s heavyweights were totally dominated by black fighters. Sonny Liston Zora Folley Eddie Machan Floyd Patterson Cleveland Williams Ernie Terrell.

 

If that gets you through the night. Everyone fought often and and on short notice back then.

 

"....and then, the age of black Supermen begun"
The main black heavyweight contenders pre 1942 were Roscoe Toles, Turkey Thompson and Lem Franklin.
Louis dispatched Toles in 5 rounds before the Carnera fight and was then slapping him around for training before the Max Baer bout.
Franklin and Thompson were also good fighters but they never got past the best white guys so it's hard to see how they deserved a title shot instead.
The prominence of black fighters in the 50s might have something to do with there being a smaller pool of fighters overall.
Both Louis and Sharkey remarked at the dwindling numbers of fighters during Marciano's reign in the mid fifties.

 

At the end of 42 ,with Louis Champ the Ring top ten had,
1.Bivins
3.Thompson
4.Toles
5.Bobo
6.Brown
8. Brooks
All black guys
The Lhv's
1.Bivins
3.Charles
5.Marshall
6.Cocoa Kid
7. Bolden
8.Alabama Kid

Middles
1. Moore
2.Burley
3.Williams
4.Tunero
5. Booker

Welters
1.Robinson
2.Armstrong
3.Wilson
4.Cocoa Kid
5.Turner
7.Edgar
All Black

 

And those are not the 3rd raters and club fighters of those times. Or talented fighters that couldn't get a break because of , race, management, family obligations like having to work a regular job.
Some don't realize how big boxing was during those years. There were literally boxing clubs everywhere. From low income communities to a lot of the better college campuses.

 

Oh really then how do you explain that 1 black fighter fought for the heavyweight championship between 1915 and 1947. Think about that when there was many many top contenders. And lets even throw out the 1 John Henry Lewis a half blind light heavy was Louis friend he did him a favor so he could earn some money. Joe blew on him and he fell over.

 

You are conflating eras. 1915 has nothing to do with it.

Get help. I haver carefully derived for you from time consuming research that black heavies were not generally the best in Louis' era. Learn or don't. I don't care.

 

Prime Louis not the old man Marciano beat up...in his prime it would have been a different fight.
The size, strength, heart, stamina work rate are the only similarities between the styles where Marciano grappled and punched on the inside like Frazier he fought with his weight over his back leg and low forcing fighters to lean into his power to reach....Frazier leaned center forward and set down on his legs to fight head to head. I love Frazier but his stance and style is made for Louis short, sharp, fast powerful combos. This fight is a fight for the ages but I think Louis accuracy swells Frazier up for worse than Ali did and like in the thrilla in Manila and like that fight facial swelling mixed with bobbing and weaving prevents Joe from seeing punches.

 

Not conflating anything between that span after Jack Johnson and thru Joe Louis’s reign after WW ll there were many top black fighters. Your the one needs to do some study of the era my friend. Harry Wills was the top contender never got a shot. He almost certainly would have been heavyweight champ had there not been a color line. Just one of many.

 

In part of that era. blacks were denied shots. In another part of it, black fighters just weren't that good.

You are conflating two things that have nothing to do with each other. I have done the research for you, and it isn't going away.

 

John Henry Lewis had recently beaten heavyweights Al Ettore (twice), Jimmy Adamick, Johnny Risko, Red Burman, Patsy Perroni and defended his LH title against Al Gainer, his last fight before Louis.

Nothing indicated an easy title defence against Henry Lewis before Louis blew him out in one round.

 

Someone said all fighters fought a lot in the old days. Sure but matter of the degree managers knew the black fighter (esp heavyweights) pre WW ll would never get a chance to be a champion so why give him the attention or why manage him in the first place. And they were blocked so they had to take dives for the white fighters. Read history of Walcott. He has supposed to be the black heavyweight the numbers gangsters were going to develop and break the color line with. But was decided to go with Louis and you see the career Walcott had until after the war.