FOTW #17: Vito Antuofermo Double (Hagler I and Minter I) + bonus fights

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mrkoolkevin, Feb 11, 2019 at 11:22 AM.



  1. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Not here for the fairy tales Full Member

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    We're going to a dark place this week as we dive into some fights featuring Vito Antuofermo. Not everybody's cup of tea but all heart all the time, and he gave some very good fighters some very tough fights. Both fights at least somewhat controversial--I know I disagreed with the official scoring in both when I watched them.

    We hope you can find time to (re)watch these fights, or at least a few rounds, and weigh in on the action.

    Hagler:


    Minter:
    Unfortunately, the copy of the first Minter fight available on YouTube is separated into five parts. Here's the first part:
     
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  2. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Not here for the fairy tales Full Member

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    For the folks who can't get enough Vito, here are a few bonus options for us to rewatch, rescore, and discuss:

    Hagler II (rough fight):


    Briscoe (I also disagreed with this decision):


    Hart (of Harbaugh inspirational speech fame):


    Corro (not much to say about this one but it's gotta be extremely ugly)
     
  3. PhillyPhan69

    PhillyPhan69 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Ahhhhh.....Alan Minter! I have no rational reason for being such a huge appreciator of him....but I am lol. I don’t have either of my cards on hand but I remember them both being among the hardest fights I have tried to score. Really depends on what you see/like and weigh heavily and/or who you like and whether a bias plays in. I am very excited and interested in this installment!
     
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  4. PhillyPhan69

    PhillyPhan69 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    When A Tie Is Better Than Kissing Your Sister
    By Pat Putnam,
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    , December 10, 1979

    For
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    , who refereed the brawling, bloody middleweight title fight which preceded the
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    -
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    bout at
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    , the outcome was as apparent as the many cuts on Vito Antuofermo's craggy face. Moving quickly to the corner of Marvin Hagler, Mills directed the challenger to turn and face the
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    cameras. "Congratulations," Mills murmured. "Now stay facing this way until they announce the decision and I raise your arm."

    Across the way, little
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    , the ancient cutman, was busily anointing Antuofermo's torn features with his magic wound solution. There were six cuts; 25 stitches would be required to close four of them.

    "You win it in the last round," Brown rasped, working swiftly. He didn't want Vito--a 4--1 underdog in his first title defense--to be bleeding when they told him he was still champion.

    But surely the referee and the bettors were right and Brown was not.

    And then they read the astonishing decision:

    Judge
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    : 144--142 for Antuofermo.

    Judge
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    : 145--141 for Hagler.

    And Judge Hal Miller: 143--143.

    A draw. And draws go to the champion.

    The champion's style is neo-caveman. Pressure is his game. He simply lowers his head and charges, and once inside he rains blows with unrelenting fury. It is a style that had won the 26-year-old exsausage grinder 45 of 49 fights (with one draw) and the
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    -
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    title (from
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    ) last June. The Hagler bout brought him $190,000. His opponent was paid $40,000.

    While basically a lefthander, Hagler is a switcher who prefers to fight from a distance, sharp and clean. He wears people down, taking them out with clusters of crushing, crisp combinations. While winning 46 of 49 bouts (one draw) he had knocked out 38 opponents.

    Against Antuofermo, an Italian-born resident of Brooklyn who usually begins to bleed halfway through the national anthem. Hagler's slashing style promised to remind people of the Little Bighorn. But only "if we can keep Vito off us," said
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    , who with his brother
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    manages and trains Hagler. "Vito is rough and tough, a street brawler with a lot of heart whose best punch is his head. We can't go inside with him. That would be crazy."

    Hagler's strategy was to circle the wagons, to stay out of the corners and off the ropes and, whenever Antuofermo got inside, to tie him up until the referee gave him a pass out of the danger zone.

    In the early going it was all Hagler. The 27-year-old challenger piled up points with a stinging clothesline jab and hooks from both sides. A jab opened a small cut in the outside corner of Antuofermo's left eye in the third; a left uppercut opened the other corner of the same eye in the fourth.

    In the fifth, the champion began to apply more pressure, but he took still more punishment getting inside. He came out of that round bleeding from a small cut near the corner of the right eye. He was cut twice more in the sixth: over the right eye and on the right cheek, the latter a two-inch opening. In the ninth Hagler ripped him under the left eye.

    "Help," said cutman Brown. In stepped Tony Carione, Antuofermo's manager, who worked on two of the cuts while Brown closed the other four.

    "I'm getting old," sighed Brown, who is 72. "Once I could close six cuts in a minute and not even feel hurried."

    If the cuts were troubling Brown, they seemed to have little, if any, effect on Antuofermo. Still playing the bull to Hagler's matador, he stepped up his attack, pouring in, punching without pause.

    By the 14th round Antuofermo had what he wanted: a gang rumble in a Brooklyn back alley. Abandoning artistry, Hagler met him head to head.

    The challenger was cut in the outer corner of his right eye and blood streamed down his cheek. Antuofermo was having trouble breathing because of a lingering cold: his body was splattered with blood.

    As the last round began, both men rushed across the ring, meeting halfway, and began swinging. Three minutes later they were still swinging. It was a cruel, bloody combat, and it was awesome.

    Hardly had the decision been announced when
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    , the
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    promoter, standing at ringside, shouted that there would be an immediate rematch, much to the dismay of the WBC and the WBA--and of
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    , the English southpaw who had been promised the next title fight no matter who won in Las Vegas.

    "The WBC will not be led by promoters," countered
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    , the WBC president. "We will have our convention in a week, and we will talk about it. There is no doubt Hagler deserves another chance. But after Minter."

    At first, Dr. Elias Cordoba, the WBA ratings chairman and the power behind the scenes, agreed. But later, after reflection and a conference with Arum, he changed his mind and said the WBA would order an immediate rematch.

    Which leaves Antuofermo as the man in the middle. He'll have to make a choice: fight Minter for the WBC or Hagler for the WBA. He'll make one group happy; the other group will strip him of its version of the title.

    Through no fault of his own, Antuofermo soon will be half a world champion. That is the unkindest cut of all.
     
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  5. PhillyPhan69

    PhillyPhan69 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I post my cards on eye on the ring just so I don’t have to search for ancient notebooks scattered through my house lol. I don’t know any of these guys or their competence but not one draw or Antuofermo card...interested to see if we see it the same as they do

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    And for Antuofermo vs Minter

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    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019 at 12:03 PM
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  6. PhillyPhan69

    PhillyPhan69 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    1980-03-16 :
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    159¾ lbs beat
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    158¼ lbs by SD in round 15 of 15

    • Location: Caesars Palace, Las Vegas, Nevada, USA
    • Referee:
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    • Judge:
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      144-141
    • Judge:
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      149-137
    • Judge:
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      143-145
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      &
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      Middleweight Fights
    "The fight was a contrast in styles, with Minter, a classic standup boxer, using right jabs to keep Antuofermo at bay. But he couldn't do so all the time and the Italian-born mauler lowered his head and rushed in, frequently driving Minter to the ropes. The two fighters, both known as heavy bleeders, suffered cuts over their eyes but the bout was remarkably free of blood. Antuofermo, 158 1/4, put the left-handed Minter down in the 14th round with a right to the body, but Minter, 159 3/4, scrambled quickly to his feet. Minter was given an eight count although he claimed he had been pushed. Minter, aided by a lopsided score by a British judge, took the title from Antuofermo by a split decision in a 15 round nationally televised fight from Caesars Palace. The British judge, Roland Dakin, scored the fight 149-137 for Minter. Judge Charles Minker of Las Vegas scored it 144-141 for Minter, while judge Ladislao Sanchez of Venezuela scored it 145-143 for Antuofermo. The AP also had it 145-143 for Antuofermo. The decision was at odds with the scoring of many ringsiders. An informal poll of 17 writers covering the fight showed 10 scoring for Antuofermo, 5 for Minter and 2 scoring it a draw." -Associated Press

    Post fight comments

    • "When they said 'split decision,' and then 'Minter,' it was unbelievable. If they had said 'Antuofermo,' I might have had a heart attack." -Alan Minter
    • "I thought for sure I won. This fight, they gave it to him. I wasn't wrong, your judge was wrong. They should suspend both these judges." -Vito Antuofermo
    • "He was blind. He was a prejudicial judge. You can quote me on that too." -Roy Tennison, Executive Secretary of the Nevada State Athletic Commission, on Roland Dakin's scorecard.
     
  7. PhillyPhan69

    PhillyPhan69 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I am going to watch Hagler vs Antuofermo as soon as I get back from taking my dog to the vet. I hope others are as excited about this fight as I am!

    I watched it when I was 11 and was a huge Hagler fan. He was kind of an adopted Philly fighter as he was one of the few willing not only to fight the Philly MW’s of the 70’s but to come into Philly and do it. I grew to love watching him fight and still do!

    I didn’t know anything about scoring fights at 11 (who knows in the eyes of some maybe I still don’t know how to lol)...but I remember thinking Hagler was robbed! Then I watched this 10 years ago and scored it a draw...again 5 years ago and got a draw again....interested to see what I think today? Hope to post my card and thoughts after dinner
     
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  8. Pat M

    Pat M Member Full Member

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    I scored the Hagler - Antuofermo fight for MH 145-142 or 8-5-2 in rounds. I scored 2,3,4,6,7,11,14,15 for MH, I scored 5,8,9,10,13 for VA, I scored 1,12 EVEN. If VA had been a harder puncher, it might have been a different fight.

    I was impressed by VA's boxing early in the fight, I'll probably be the only one to say that! He had good fundamentals, but most NYC fighters do. He did seem small for a middleweight. I had low expectations of VA after some of the things I had read about him. He was definitely better than I expected him to be. MH fought a smart fight against a difficult opponent. Good fight again, with a lot of close rounds.
     
  9. PhillyPhan69

    PhillyPhan69 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Hagler vs Antuofermo I
    Wow! What a fight! Rounds 10-15 are very FUN for me and that is as good of a round 15 as I can recall. It is a shame that when exciting fights get mentioned this one gets very little love...I hope a lot watch this one it is well worth the time.

    RBR
    1 EVEN
    2 Hagler (Hagler 20-19)
    3 Hagler (Hagler 30-28)
    4 Hagler (Hagler 40-37) close
    5 Antuofermo (Hagler 49-47)
    6 Hagler (Hagler 59-56)
    7 Hagler (Hagler 69-65) close
    8 Antuofermo (Hagler 78-75)
    9 Antuofermo (Hagler 87-85) close
    10 Hagler (Hagler 97-94) close
    11 Antuofermo (Hagler 106-104) close...what a fun round!
    12 Antuofermo (Hagler 115-114) close
    13 Antuofermo (even 124-124)
    14 Hagler (Hagler 134-133) close
    15 Hagler (Hagler 144-142) very close and maybe among the best 15th rounds in history imo

    I think there is a very good case for a draw, but very little case for an Antuofermo victory. I have a feeling though that most cards will be wider than mine.

    A shame that people revisit Hagler vs Duran or SRL more than this...this is 10 x’s the fight that those are! Hopefully some others will enjoy this as much as I did! I have scored it 3 times now twice a draw and 1 for Hagler...I am content with a majority draw but not sure most others will be. I don’t feel like this is a robbery imo but suspect a few will...time will tell
     
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  10. PhillyPhan69

    PhillyPhan69 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Lol you beat me by 2 minutes...I thought I had you this time! Cheers
     
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  11. PhillyPhan69

    PhillyPhan69 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Well I feel we both did pretty good for a tough fight to score. We got 10-12 different with you scoring 1-1-1 and me scoring 2-1 for Vito but we saw it fairly similar. Now I feel comfortable with my card after seeing yours. You had it 8-5-2 and I had it 8-6-1 can’t do much better than that for 2 admitted amateur judges lol
     
  12. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Not here for the fairy tales Full Member

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    I've got the exact same scorecard as both of you through 6: Hagler 4-1-1.

    Interesting fight so far. Felt like Hagler was mostly cruising for the first four rounds, like he was in a sparring session, but Vito keeps coming after him (often head first). Vito occasionally catches him with punches that don't seem like they should be landing on Marvin Hagler, but none of them have any impact until the 5th. I noticed that Hagler was doing more arm punching than usual in the sixth. Turned it up for a stretch in the second half of the round but seems like he was getting tired in there.

    Vito isn't the caveman/crash test dummy some people make him out to be. I hate the way he leads with his head like a battering ram though and I think it's a pretty despicable tactic. I'm surprised the refs let him get away with it so often.
     
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  13. PhillyPhan69

    PhillyPhan69 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Some decent articles on Minter vs Antuofermo and Vito vs Marvin

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    a good one on pressreader that I can’t paste the link to...but google Vito Antuefermo press reader
     
  14. PhillyPhan69

    PhillyPhan69 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    That provokes 2 interesting thoughts...1 I didn’t really pick up on the battering ram head, as much as I noticed the bull rush tactics, but didn’t find it dirty....but then again I am not one to dislike roughhouse tactics...

    2nd one is he was always mad and have a couple of quotes in the above links where he claims Hagler butted him to cut him in their 2nd fight and then did it again...he said he told Hagler you butted me....and Hagler said so....lol. He was mad over this years into retirement and was offered fights like Hearns to come out of retirement. He said the only guy I will come back for is Hagler. I will be in shape when I am 85 and still fight him. Sounds like a little bad blood
     
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  15. Pat M

    Pat M Member Full Member

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    That's amazing, those rounds were mostly close and we were that close to the same score at the end?! Maybe we're getting good at this? LOL.
     
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