FOTW #17: Vito Antuofermo Double (Hagler I and Minter I) + bonus fights

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mrkoolkevin, Feb 11, 2019.



  1. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Not here for the fairy tales Full Member

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    Most of the bull rushes involved him lowering his head 45 degrees or more and plowing it into Hagler's face, occasionally followed by some light punches. I think he did it way too often for it to not be dirty. Several times in the first several rounds (I'll try to go back and post clips some time). IIRC, he was even worse in the Minter fight.
     
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  2. PhillyPhan69

    PhillyPhan69 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I am going to watch Minter ca Antuofermo later tonight or tomorrow...I will keep my eyes on it as I have not watched in 5+ years or so
     
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  3. PhillyPhan69

    PhillyPhan69 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Well....either that...or we are both equally poor....but I like your slant better! Let’s go with that one lol
     
  4. Pat M

    Pat M Active Member Full Member

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    Just watched Minter - Antuofermo and until I totaled my scores I assumed I had scored heavily for AM. When I totaled my scores, it was 143-143, and 7-6-2 AM with VA getting a 2 point round in round 14. I don't know if the knockdown was a knockdown or a push down but I scored a 2 point round for VA.

    I scored rounds 2,3,4,5,6,7,8, for AM, rounds 9,10,11,13,14,15 for VA, and rounds 1,12 EVEN. I wouldn't argue with the way anybody scored this one, it could go either way. For me it was like two fights, the first 8 were mostly AM, the second 7 were close but VA seemed to do a little more in most of them.

    I thought VA looked better in the Hagler fight, in this one he was lunging more and holding more. VA is still a more skilled boxer than given credit for. When Cosell says that VA can punch from anywhere, that seems to be a nice way of saying that he throws arm punches. It looked like AM was 4-5" taller than VA, I checked BoxRec and AM is listed at 5-9 and VA is listed at 5-7.5?
     
  5. PhillyPhan69

    PhillyPhan69 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Unfortunately I won’t get to it till tomorrow....but in regards to 14 Minter has always said it was a push...I have not seen it in a few years and it was one of those things I am keeping my eye out for. Antuofermo on the other hand while feeling he won the fight felt like the ref wouldn’t allow him to infight and broke every time. He blamed that for not letting him fully fight his fight. Just want to keep my eye on the reffing.

    Did you think the reffing was out of line? Is that why he may have looked better in the Hagler fight? Or did it not stand out to you?
     
  6. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Addict Full Member

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    The referee was Carlos Padilla. One of the most woefully indecisive referees I have ever seen. Talk about having naked pictures of big time officials, this guy must've had a dossier on everyone. Because for every goof he pulled he would continually get another plum assignment. Regarding Antuofermo - Minter, he absolutely refused to allow Antuofermo an inside fight. Yet, 3 months later, he allows Roberto Duran an inside fight with Sugar Ray Leonard. Freddie Brown was in the corner of both Antuofermo and Duran both nights and he himself said he couldn't figure it out.
     
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  7. PhillyPhan69

    PhillyPhan69 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Just some early observations about the job of Padilla and the butting of Antuofermo. I am 2 rounds into this fight and will edit to add to it as the fight progresses. Antuofermo complains that Padilla won’t let him fight inside so I want to pay attention to that, and see if Antuofermo is dirty in the way he uses his head as a battering ram.,,

    Round 1 Padilla breaks them twice once when Antuofermo has his head under minters arm and the second Minter ties him up- both look solid

    Round 2 8-9 breaks. 1 clinch where Antuofermo gets warmed for hitting on the break. 4 clinches, 1 head under the arm again. 1 really poor break where Antuofermo should still be allowed to throw, and one clinch where Antuofermo hits Minter behind the head and should have been warned. I only see one poor break unless Minter should be warned against holding and clinching inside.

    In regards to the butting Antuofermo seems to be going in low with the head and pressing it into the chin of Minter rather than outright butting. Only 2 rounds in but Padilla seems to be establishing that Minter is free to tie up and clinch and that breaks will ensue at least in the early going.

    Edit round 3 6 more breaks. Only one seemed an early preemptive break. Minter seems allowed to clinch with no repercussions with 3 of them. Antuofermo coming in with his head low leading to his head under minters arm for 2 where Minter gets warned on one for pressing Vito’s neck down with his forearm. Minter presses the neck for a second on the next clinch but quickly released before Padilla could get involved. Once Antuofermo charged with his head into minters chin but seems more reckless than intentional?

    I am done editing lol 16+ breaks 3 rounds in and it seems Padilla will allow that...if so Antuofermo is in for a long night or a new approach
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2019
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  8. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Not here for the fairy tales Full Member

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    Don't forget the bonus fights, everybody.
     
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  9. Pat M

    Pat M Active Member Full Member

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    Scored Hart - Antuofermo. I had VA winning all 4 rounds (40-36) until the knockout. VA seemed to hurt EH with punches almost from the start. VA was aggressive, he didn't give EH any rest time and EH didn't seem to be effective when he was backed up. VA didn't throw punches upward until the 5th round, even on the inside most of his punches were high, to the head. When he threw upper cut type punches in the 5th to the head and body they were effective but EH was already in bad shape from the previous round.
     
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  10. PhillyPhan69

    PhillyPhan69 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Antuofermo vs Minter I- I have not added my card up yet so I will find out my score when I post this. Very difficult fight to score imo and I have marked 11 close rounds and 2 rounds each that I thought were clear. So if people take the time to score this I fully expect some diverse outcomes....since press row had 10 for Vito 5 For Alan and 2 draws I suspect we will have a little conflict. I will hit on the official judging after I post my card. Sloppy fight as to be excpected with Vito anytime (I don’t mean that as a negative towards him either lol). Padilla is as bad as joe Cortez which says a lot from me. Antuofermo does some butting and I believe minters cut came from that. He also would come in low and drive the head into the chin. He hits on the break many times but only received one warning. Minter pushes down on Vito’s neck multiple times, as well as elbows and shoving off to create space. A little dirty but a nice blend of a boxer puncher vs as warmer pressure fighter when they actually got to showcase their clash of styles, which sometimes was not often enough.

    RBR
    1 Minter (10-9)
    2 Draw (Minter 20-19)
    3 Minter (Minter 30-28)
    4 Vito (Minter 39-38)
    5 Minter (Minter 49-47)
    6 Vito (Minter 58-57)
    7 Minter (Minter 68-66)
    8 Minter (Minter 78-75)
    9 Minter (Minter 88-84)
    10 Minter (Minter 98-93)
    11 Vito (Minter 107-103)
    12 Minter (Minter 117-112)
    13 Vito (Minter 126-122)
    14 Vito 10-8 (Minter 134-132)
    15 Vito (Minter 143-142)

    I have it 8-6-1 for Minter for a 143-142 verdict. I am not comfortable with my card but I think that this is close enough that I won’t be any more comfortable with other cards either lol.

    Onto the judging
    Minker 144-141 Minter seems fair and realistic to me.

    Sanchez 145-143 Antuofermo seems fair and balanced to me.

    Roland Dakin (scored Antuofermo vs Corro 143-142 for Vito, and said that should prove he isn’t biased lol( rendered perhaps the worst most corrupted card in history, but because this fight flies under the radar he escapes scrutiny. 149-137 Minter....let’s look at this! I wish I could locate the official rbr scorecard but no luck. He has Vito losing 13 rds which is bad enough. But look at that 149 and remember the KD in rd 14. Either Dakin did not
    do justice! He either scored the fight 13-0-2 and had the 14th even or for Minter and deducted a point (and I don’t see how you can score that even) or he gave it to Vito and did not deduct the KD point. Either way his card is up there with the worst and most unfair I have ever seen.

    I do feel that Minter edged it but can also see a draw or a Vito card as well. What I can’t see is a complete shutout and that is borderline criminal.
     
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  11. PhillyPhan69

    PhillyPhan69 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Fortunately if people think we are scoring our fights to similar this falls into one of the small handful we scored different! We had 7 out of 15 rounds divergent.

    1 you draw- Me Alan
    2 You Alan - me draw
    4 You Alan - me Vito
    6 You Alan - me Vito
    9 You Vito me Alan
    10 You Vito me Alan
    12 You draw me Alan

    You had it 3-2-2 for Alan
    I had it 4-2-1 for Alan

    That makes the difference in your draw and my 1 point Minter card. Our totals are close if that counts for anything. Tough close fight to score
     
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  12. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Don't mean to cheat here but I have scored and rescored Antuofermo-Minter I a couple of times in the most recent past and had an almost identical score both times. Here we go.

    Vito Antuofermo v Alan Minter I

    Round 1: 10-9 Minter
    Round 2: 10-9 Minter
    Round 3: 10-9 Minter
    Round 4: 10-9 Minter
    Round 5: 10-9 Vito
    Round 6: 10-9 Vito
    Round 7: 10-10 Even
    Round 8: 10-9 Vito
    Round 9: 10-9 Minter
    Round 10: 10-9 Vito
    Round 11: 10-9 Vito
    Round 12: 10-9 Vito
    Round 13: 10-10 Even
    Round 14: 10-8 Vito (disagreed with the knockdown but the ref counted it)
    Round 15: 10-9 Vito

    Total: 145-141 Antuofermo

    Antuofermo's style can be unappetizing at best. A crowding/mugging style that is lacking in finesse, but nonetheless effective. I felt his mugging style and explosive punches negated Minter's effective jab. The knockdown was dubious. Minter looked like he may have tangled his legs when that punch/push came in. Hard to say.

    I have scored Hagler-Antuofermo I twice, but I will score this again. The first time I had Hagler up 8-7 in rounds. The second time I had Hagler up 9-5-1 in rounds, but there were 3 rounds I found to be so controversial that I need to revisit.
     
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  13. Pat M

    Pat M Active Member Full Member

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    Edited, scored round 5 for BB, round 6 for VA.
    I scored Anutofermo - Briscoe and my scores lined up with the official scores. I had VA winning 7-2-1, giving him 2,3,6,7,8,9,10, I gave BB 4,5, and scored round 1 EVEN. It looked like an experienced old man trying to survive against a younger, better conditioned man. BB fought at one pace, VA was constantly punching. I disagreed with John Condon throughout the fight and thought maybe the fight looked different at ringside. Since the officials and ref agreed with my scorecard, I guess it didn't?

    VA is a good fundamental fighter, he does head butt and lead with his head some, but he isn't just a face first wild swinger.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2019
  14. PhillyPhan69

    PhillyPhan69 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Antuofermo vs Briscoe
    Well I tried to score this fight for Bennie LOL. The commentary is bad IMO and the pun is unintended. Bennie just does not throw enough and looks like a MW version of Old Foreman or a lethargic Tua that won’t string his punches together. Listening to the commentary as Bennie lands 2 punches and they talk about how they are hurting Vito...then Vito lands 6-8 and they either don’t mention it or emphasize in their opinion how they are light punches and not hitting Bennie. Bennie does land some nice punches, but does not string them together for me. A shame I think a younger Bennie eats him up, but not on this night for me.

    1 Even
    2 Vito
    3 Vito
    4 Bennie
    5 Bennie
    6 Vito
    7 Vito
    8 Vito
    9 Vito
    10 Vito

    I can see giving Bennie 1-2 & 4-6 but I can’t see Bennie winning more than 4 either way. I could see 9-1 Vito more than a Bennie win as much as it pains me to say so. I almost had it 8-2 but gave a draw to round 1. 1-2 could go either way.
     
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  15. PhillyPhan69

    PhillyPhan69 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Not sure if you mistyped but you gave round 5 to both guys but didn’t call it an even round lol.

    Looks like we may have a rare identical card but you beat me by 6 minutes again lol
     
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