FOTW #19: Joe Calzaghe Double (Reid and Hopkins; Bonus: Lacy)

Highly controversial? I watched both again a couple of months apart and there’s no chance either one was anything but Calzaghe winning. He didn’t perform well in either but he won clear. I think I have my RBR at home I’ll add them if I do.

The Reid fight he was running away with it and Reid won some rounds to close the gap but not enough. Hopkins stopped trying to win after 6 rounds IMO.

 

Don't feel good about my scorecard, but the fight was close and many rounds could go either way. I scored for Calzaghe 115-114, the difference being the one point deduction in round 8. I had it 5-5-2 in rounds. I gave JC 1,2,3,4,8, I gave RR 5,7,9,11,12 and scored 6,10 EVEN. JC looked to be better schooled, RR was a "Bonavena" type fighter, physically strong, but lacking technique. RR didn't mind using his head, elbow, or hitting on the break when the opportunity would arise.

RR's technique was not impressive, but his physical strength kept him close. If he had not backed up so much early in the fight, he might have won some of the early rounds and won the fight. RR's punches were mostly arm punches, particularly his hook. If he threw it with a weight transfer he might have hurt JC. JC was open and RR landed some hooks but they had little power. RR also "walked" a lot with his right hand. When he'd throw the right he'd bring his right foot forward which affected his balance and his ability to follow up. It was a strange fight, I felt like JC was winning the boxing match, but then RR would make a fight of it and steal the round.

 

Scored Calzaghe - Hopkins. I didn't think BH did enough to win many rounds, JC slapped a lot, but he was much busier and the aggressor. I scored for JC 117-111 or 9-2-1 in rounds. I gave JC 2,4,5,6,7,8,9,11,12, I gave BH 1 (2points),3, and scored round 10 EVEN. Not a lot to say about this one, JC was not a puncher in this fight, but he did force the fight and throw punches, while BH fought a mostly defensive fight taking few risks. It's surprising that one judge scored for BH, that might be the most controversial card I've seen in any fight that we've score on the FOTW. JC didn't hurt BH but IMO, he did enough to win comfortably.

 

A decent read about Hopkins and Calzaghe looking back 10 years later. They both seem to be on good terms and have a mutual respect for each other years down the road.

https://www.ringtv.com/533775-berna...ll-light-heavyweight-showdown-10-years-later/

 

Just a quick side note...the point of this thread is to rewatch and rescore older fights and give fresh insights removed from the emotions and the moment of the original fight. I am not dismissing your card in any way, and would still be interested in seeing it if you have it? (I no longer have mine).

I agree that I don’t think either fight was controversial in a widespread way, but both can be seen close or contested....or at least that was the thought at the time.

I did have Hops winning by 1 on the night of the fight. But even though it was a SD I don’t remember but a handful who argued strongly against the decision. I equate it to DLH vs FMJ where a handful (myself as well....although I. These threads I changed my mind) scores for Oscar, but there was no real widespread cries of injustice. I am a Hopkins fan and hate scoring fights for fighters I openly root for, because 1 it casts a cloud on my objectivity (real or imagined) and it makes me question my own as well lol. I am curious if I still see it that way today.

Reid vs Calzaghe- I equate to Canelo vs Trout. There Were many who thought Calzaghe was protected and overrated, and jumped on a close fight (in my mind Canelo beat trout 8-4 and I believe I had Calzaghe over Reid by that same margin). In this one though many (mostly Calzaghe detractors) called it a robbery. They were in the minority but it was a vocal minority.

I am interested to see how our Classic forum sees and scores these with fresh eyes.

 

I will post my card in a minute. I agree the Hopkins fought a largely defensive fight with minimal risks. He did though IMO land some of the fights cleaner shots, although Calzaghe was clearly outworking and outlanding him.

I don’t think Byrd’s card is that bad (although she does seem to have the controversial card in several controversial fights lol). I think the media split (small sample size) lends credence to the fact that many (not meaning must), feel and/or felt that Hopkins edged it. I think your card is balanced and fair (although 11 stands out to me) and I think 9-3 117-111 for Calzaghe or 7-5 115-112 Hopkins on the other end...but both would mean giving all of the close rounds to one fighter.

From boxeec

Media Scores

• Bad Left Hook 117-110 Calzaghe
• HBO 116-111 Calzaghe
• Boxing Chronicles 116-111 Calzaghe
• Telegraph 115-113 Calzaghe
• ESPN 114-113 Hopkins
• AP 114-113 Hopkins
• Yahoo 114-113 Hopkins

Very balanced Article from one of the media who thought Hopkins won by a point

Calzaghe squeaks past Hopkins and on to bigger paydays
Dan Rafael, April 21, 2008

Could Calzaghe cross the pond and beat a top opponent? And could he do it in a new weight class? He answered both questions like so: Yes. After 21 super middleweight defenses during an 11-year reign, Calzaghe left behind the 168-pound division and came to America along with several thousand of his Welsh countryman, and delivered a huge victory against Hopkins, who couldn't back up his prefight racist boast that he would never let a white boy beat him.

The white boy did beat him, though, in a close fight that early on looked like it might be a Hopkins wipeout the same way Floyd Mayweather so easily handled Ricky Hatton in December in the last instance of a big-name fighter from the United Kingdom coming to the U.S. to test himself against an elite opponent.

Calzaghe, 36, suffered a first-round knockdown and took several rounds to get into the flow. But by the last third of the fight, he was in control and the 43-year-old Hopkins' punch output had slowed to a trickle while his grabbing, clutching style began to resemble a John Ruiz fight at times. Hopkins was tired and when he got hit with a blow slightly below the belt in the 10th round, he put on a fabulous acting job that helped him buy some rest time. But he failed in an obvious attempt to persuade referee Joe Cortez to take a point from Calzaghe. Cortez, incidentally, did a marvelous job in a fight that everyone knew going in was going to be difficult to officiate.

Hopkins, who reigned as middleweight champ for a record 20 defenses and was making his second light heavyweight defense, is still an excellent fighter but it seems as though he's now out of opponents, and there doesn't seem to be much reason for him to continue other than to cash checks. But Hopkins loves to brag about how much money he has in the bank so what's the point of another fight, especially if it's going to be yet another ugly one?

Hopkins, of course, heavily disputed the outcome and could not bring himself to give Calzaghe any credit for his performance after the fight, which is unfortunate. Even if you think Hopkins won, and plenty of us at ringside thought he eked out a one-point decision, Calzaghe should still be commended for his excellent performance. For anyone who doubted his greatness in the wake of his victory last fall against Mikkel Kessler, this should finally convince you.

Now Calzaghe, a lock first-ballot Hall of Famer (as is Hopkins) will move on to even more big business. The obvious match is against Roy Jones, who was ringside. There is already talk that that they will meet Nov. 15, most likely in the United States, where the money can be maximized on HBO PPV.

 

Calzaghe vs Hopkins
I scored this 114-113 for Hopkins on fight night, and felt he edged it. I was not worked up over it nor did I feel he was robbed. This time I saw it different but think 116-111 joe to 114-113 are extremely defendable.

RBR
1 Hopkins 10-8
2 Hopkins (Hopkins 20-17)
3 Hopkins (Hopkins 30-26)
4 Even (Hopkins 40-36)
5 Calzaghe (Hopkins 49-46)
6 Calzaghe (Hopkins 58-56)
7 Calzaghe (Hopkins 67-66)
8 Calzaghe (76-76)
9 Calzaghe (Calzaghe 86-85)
10 Hopkins (95-95)
11 Hopkins (Hopkins 105-104)
12 Calzaghe (114-114)

I felt there were 4 easy to score rds
Hopkins 1 10-8
Calzaghe 7-8-9
For a 3-1 edge for joe

I felt there were 4 close rounds that I awarded without wrestling
Hopkins 11
Calzaghe 5-6-12
So I had Calzaghe up 6-2 in rounds (3 pts in rounds that I didn’t struggle to award)

I felt there were 4 very close tight swing rounds that could go either way. Did my Hopkins bus’s come out? Perhaps but I didn’t really try to, but this is why I hate to score fights for guys I am openly a fan of.

2-3-4-10 I awarded 3-0-1 for Hopkins. I believe that is how I honestly saw it, but I don’t know even know if personal unconscious bias led me to that.

 

Nice breakdown of the fight. As you mentioned earlier, BH did land the cleaner punches. JC slapped with his left too much. I just didn't think BH did enough to win the fight but I probably score too heavily for the aggressor. BH would be a tough fight for anybody, he held, he went low whenever the ref was on the other side, and when anything was close to low for him he'd act like the opponent hit him below the belt with a baseball bat! Most of the rounds were close but I gave most of them to JC.

Another problem for me in this fight is that the style of neither fighter interested me and I probably didn't watch it as close as I do some others. Some fights, I don't want to miss a second, in this one, to me there was no suspense. Neither fighter seemed capable of hurting/stunning the other and it was more a matter of if BH could catch JC off balance and get a flash knockdown or whether JC would land enough slaps to make BH hold or cover up.

Interestingly, JC weighed in at 181 according to Emmanuel Steward before the fight, BH was noticeably bigger and according to Steward refused to weigh so this was really a pre-Cruiserweigtht, pre 24 hour before weigh in, heavyweight fight. BH was probably around 190 in the ring. For their age and size they were active, both were still trying to win the 12th round.

 

Calzaghe vs Hopkins
Official judges

Gimza 115-112 Calzaghe
Calzaghe 2-5-6-7-8-9-10-12
Hopkins 1-3-4-11

Byrd 114-113 Hopkins
Calzaghe 3-4-7-8-9-12
Hopkins 1-2-5-6-10-11

Giampa 116-111 Calzaghe
Calzaghe 3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10-12
Hopkins 1-2-11

They had a consensus in rounds
Calzaghe 7-8-9-12
Hopkins 1-11
I think those 6 rounds (+2 others) were easy for me to score (even if others disagree. All 3 judges gave 11 to Hopkins and have trouble seeing that as a Calzaghe round.

2-1 in joes favor rounds
3-4-5-6-10
2-1 in Hopkins favor
Rd 2

Whichever way you score these 6 rounds will likely be the difference in the variables of the cards.

I do struggle (not with Byrd’s verdict) with Byrd awarding 5-6 to Hopkins and while I disagree w/Ledderman scars I don’t see how he gave 7 to Hopkins and as I said I am a Hopkins fan.

Here is the official cards
https://www.google.com/search?q=cal...oECAwQAg&biw=320&bih=454#imgrc=JUgkJyGKkaWwQM

And some other guys who scored this fight where 53% scored Calzaghe and 47% disagree with the outcome having a draw or Hopkins victory

https://www.eyeonthering.com/boxing/battle-planet-bernard-hopkins-vs-joe-calzaghe

 

For those who think there is no chance or case for Calzaghe losing to Reid (I did score Calzaghe and am getting ready to rescore it now), here are a bunch of cards where 36% of the scorers felt Reid won or it was a draw.

https://www.eyeonthering.com/boxing/war-worlds-joe-calzaghe-vs-robin-reid

 

Some good insights and thoughts. I am off to score it now myself

 

Joe Calzaghe vs Robin Reid
I will say the announcers and crowd seemed to find this a much better and exciting fight than I found it to be. Not bad but certainly not one I plan to revisit. I don’t find it as controversial or as close as sone do. And I will take the stance that Pat took with Byrd’s card from the Hopkins fight. I think Paul Thomas’s cars of 116-111 for Reid...well I think it is outlandishly poor. This was a sloppy fight at times dirty by Reid. I can’t remember prime Calzaghe looking so poorly, but I guess Reid deserves credit for that to a degree. Even though I thought Calzaghe looked poor I thought he won very comfortably as reflected on my card. I did love the past fight interview and thought both handled the decision with a lot of class.

RBR
1 Calzaghe
2 Calzaghe (Calzaghe 20-18)
3 Calzaghe (Calzaghe (30-27)
4 Calzaghe (Calzaghe 40-36)
5 Reid (Calzaghe 49-46)
6 Reid (Calzaghe 58-56)
7 EVEN (Calzaghe 68-65)
8 Calzaghe 10-8 (Calzaghe 78-73)
9 Reid (Calzaghe 87-83)
10 Reid (Calzaghe 96-93)
11 Calzaghe (Calzaghe 106-102)
12 Calzaghe (Calzaghe 116-111)
Calzaghe 116-111

I really don’t even see a case for a draw, let alone a decision for Reid...and a 5 pt decision for Reid....wow I don’t get that one at all.