FOTW #19: Joe Calzaghe Double (Reid and Hopkins; Bonus: Lacy)

Basically how I see it. I'll rescore this fight (I'm behind in some fights), but agree with these sentiments. Joe wouldn't know what a solid punch landing felt like in this fight. Hopkins' antics are well known in this fight, and he simply didn't push the fight enough. If you ask me who I came away feeling like was the better boxer... it would be Hopkins. If you ask me who was the busier fighter and had the easier case for winning a verdict based on aggression and output it would be Joe.

 

I'm pretty sure that even Reid himself admitted in his post-fight interview (or soon after the fight in any case) that Calzaghe deserved the nod, and that he 'didn't do enough' on the night. I also remember Reid saying that a rematch was agreed upon in principle, but that he and his team declined it as they felt the offer from Calzaghe and Warren (around £100k, I believe) was an insult to them. It was only years later, when Calzaghe was a bigger name and when Reid was desperate for any kind of payday, that he started crying robbery in order to drum up interest in a second fight.

That said, it was a pretty good fight and worth another look. I ended up with 115-113 to Calzaghe. Reid won some of his rounds bigger than Calzaghe did when he started landing those crunching right hands (such as rounds 5, 6, and 9) but Reid struggled with Calzaghe's speed early on (he looked better when he stopped waiting on Calzaghe and fought more aggressively, going for the right rather than trying to jab and counter) which gave him an early deficit to deal with, and Calzaghe also looked much fresher in the home straight and produced a good couple of rounds at the end to make sure of it.

Rounds 1, 4, 7 and 10 were the debatable and very close rounds, for me, but I think you'd have to give Reid all of them to have him as the winner (personally I gave him the first and the tenth, with the seventh a 10-10). So I gave Calzaghe rounds 2, 3, 4, 8 (a 10-8 because of Reid's point deduction), 11 and 12, with round 7 a draw. That leaves Reid winning rounds 1, 5, 6, 9 and 10.
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As for Calzaghe-Hopkins...Wow, what a stinker. On previous viewings (when it happened and then again back in 2012-13), I had Calzaghe very narrowly winning. This time, I had 114-114. Hopkins won the first (10-8), second, third, seventh and tenth. Calzaghe the fourth, fifth, sixth, eighth, ninth and twelfth. I had the eleventh as a 10-10.

The only spell of 'domination' in the fight was rounds one to three, where Hopkins was clearly the better man and looked as if he might run away with it. Calzaghe was even getting outworked in those rounds, as well as outboxed and hustled on the inside. Once he settled down he ground out enough rounds without ever looking particularly good, but Hopkins stunk the place out horrendously after the midway point. Calzaghe's engine and fitness won him this one, nothing else; from a technical standpoint, he looked awful. Hopkins' subsequent wins over Pavlik, Pascal and Cloud mean that it ended up looking like a good win on his record, which it was - but the fight also left me in little doubt about who'd have won if they'd have met, for instance, at 168 a few years earlier.

 

These two were both ranked top 5 p4p in the world at the time from memory. You'd never guess it from watching it.

An ugly, boring, negative, mauling sh1tshow. I give it to Joe because he didn't shame himself by faking fouls like Hopkins did. Kudos to the guys who have gone back and scored this round by round. You're keener fans than I. I'll never put myself through watching this again...ughhh

 

??? You score fights against guys because they are poor actors??? That is the most unique system I have heard apart from Mendoza scoring based upon punch stats and media consensus

 

I thought it was an awful fight that neither really deserved to win when I watched it live. Because Hopkins carried on like a plonker I was happy that the decision went against him. I've never actually sat and scored properly it because that would entail re-watching it again and that's never going to happen, probably means I shouldn't even comment on this thread but whatever.

FYI my actual scoring system involves factors such as whether a fighter threw a bolo punch, whose trunks has the best sequins and embroidery and whose nickname I like the most.

 

As a Hopkins fan I totally agree with your round 11 thoughts. I did find the first low blow an overdone acting job, but at least I can justify that or find it defendable. Hits in the nuts hurt, and some more than others. But that was a legit hit, and I can’t fault a fighter for taking the full use of their time for another fighters infraction...but I don’t even think the one you were referring to was even a borderline low blow. That was pretty bad! I don’t know if he wanted another rest or if he knew how close the fight was and was getting real creative to have a point deducted from joe? Either way it was a poor fake job

 

I am going to tabulate this weeks Cards in a few hours if anyone still wants to get their cards in.

The threads are always open and you can revisit them anytime to post thoughts and cards, I just try to calculate them at the end of the week

 

Calzaghe vs Reid

4 cards submitted with a UD for Joe Calzaghe

RBR consensus
1 Draw 2-2-0
2 Calzaghe 4-0-0
3 Calzaghe 4-0-0
4 Calzaghe 4-0-0
5 Reid 4-0-0
6 Reid 2-0-2
7 Draw 1-1-2
8 Calzaghe 4-0-0
9 Reid 4-0-0
10 Reid 3-0-1
11 Calzaghe 2-1-1
12 Calzaghe 2-1-1

Calzaghe 6-4-2 116-114

We agreed on 6 rounds
Calzaghe 2-3-4-8
Reid 5-9
With 6 split rounds.

We had 7 Even/Draw rounds...some pretty close swing rounds

Calzaghe Cards
@Pat M 115-114
@mrkoolkevin 116-114
@PhillyPhan69 116-111
@88Chris05 115-113

 

Calzaghe vs Hopkins
4 cards submitted
MD Draw 3 draw cards 1 Calzaghe card

RBR
1 Hopkins (10-8) 4-0-0
2 Hopkins 2-1-1
3 Hopkins 3-0-1
4 Calzaghe 3-0-1
5 Calzaghe 4-0-0
6 Calzaghe 3-1-0
7 Draw 2-2-0
8 Calzaghe 4-0-0
9 Calzaghe 4-0-0
10 Hopkins 3-0-1
11 Draw 1-1-2
12 Calzaghe 4-0-0

Calzaghe 6-4-2 or 115-114 by consensus

Calzaghe card
@Pat M 117-111

Draw cards
@PhillyPhan69 114-114
@88Chris05 114-114
@mrkoolkevin 115-115