Francis Ngannou ranking

Another thing is are we judging which is the most legit sport is based on revenue and fighter pay alone?

By that standard Soccer is the best sport with the best athletes right? But is it really? Do they train harder then Boxers/MMA fighters/Kick-Boxers? Does Soccer take more skill and determination? I don’t think so.

Just because Soccer is known by everyone worldwide doesn’t make it a better sport then Lethwei.

It’s nice for the athletes and fighters when they make big money but why would I really care? I don’t get to buy a car from the money they make or pay the electric bill.

Floyd Mayweather and Conor McGregor make it out that them making record breaking money is like some achievement that we should really care about. Like that feat makes them TBE or whatever.

As far as Boxing goes: The stars make a lot of money. But the rest doesn’t. A lot of pro boxers starting out they are practically fighting for free.

I think UFC does a better job looking after their lesser known names.

 

And so everything stays same.

 

That is what is being said. But how many times does Boxing actually have undisputed Champions? It’s a rare achievement. So the end result is practically the same.

In a sense the organizations are the sport. Because they decide the rule set. The rounds, how long they last, the rankings everything.

If people say MMA they think UFC. If you walk into a classroom of high school and college kids and you ask them what do you think of when I say MMA? They will mention UFC. If you ask them what do you think about when so say Boxing? No one says WBA or IBF. So in a sense to a lot of people MMA = UFC.

 

Only a Chinese poster here can answer that for sure but I am doubtful because:

Zhang is a HW, the most prestigious division in combat sports, a good big man > great small man in most peoples eyes. Song Yadong by contrast is a BW & is ranked #10 in MMA BW rankings I saw while Ring has Zhang at #4. Zhang also medaled multiple times in both world championships & Olympics (he won silver at the 2008 Olympics), that alone would have publicized his name to the Chinese public because the 2008 Olympics were the "coming out" party for PRC so to speak where the Chinese gov't spared no efforts to show the world the rise of China

I expect that there is a big money fight for Zhang if he doesn't get aged out because I think the Chinese gov't would pay big money to host any fight where he is challenging for the HW title in China. I hope he gets the title shot because that would be good for Boxing in an enormous market like China

 

This analysis has already been done for US by John Nash who went through the trouble of writing to every athletic commission to collect all the purses

Boxing pays more than MMA in US at every level except for the 85-95 percentile

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To do a worldwide analysis is more difficult because getting the purses of all Japanese Boxers vs Japanese MMA fighters isn't easy & you have to do that for all the major countries

It doesn't matter if UFC pays more, the correct comparison is sport (MMA) to sport (Boxing)

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China has 1.4 billion, so the chances for outliers are higher, just like you got Yao Ming in Basketball. But the average Chinese person isn't a lot different in size to the average Japanese person

Why do you care which promotion has more eyes?

The only thing that matters is the *sport*. Boxing has given national icons to Thailand & Philippines (or in the case of Manny a global icon) by having those below 126 weight classes

Now if the UFC or MMA was so "global", why don't they care to cater to these markets through those weight classes? Instead why was Dana threatening to get rid of 125 lbs

As a continent Asia has the largest population with fast growing economies. Boxing promoters know that which is why you see them working with those "midgets" all over the world. Jorge Linares & Roman Gonzalez both got started with Teiken. Twenty years from now the size of economies like Vietnam, Indonesia etc will be multiples of what they are now which combined with their populations means major money for the sport of Boxing & creation of more national (& global) icons

Nasukawa Tenshin who is fairly popular (his fight with Takeru apparently did 500K PPV buys & Japan isn't a major PPV market) & was doing some heavy lifting for Rizin ratings ultimately chose Boxing as did Takei Yoshiki. He said that he was getting offers from MMA promoters including the UFC before he ultimately announced his switch to Boxing

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I will see if I can find an explanation from him anywhere on why he chose Boxing over MMA when even the UFC was interested

 

Did some digging & found the following in Japanese user discussions & media. I used ChatGPT for translating

One of the answers by a question to the question "Why did Tenshin Nasukawa switch to boxing instead of MMA?" on Japanese Yahoo group discussions:

In boxing, there are matching weight classes, but in MMA, although the UFC has a Flyweight division at around 57 kilograms, it is constantly under consideration for elimination. Additionally, organizations like Bellator don't even have a 57-kilogram class, and many MMA organizations have the 61-kilogram class as the lightest weight class. Perhaps that's why they think boxing is more likely to have global appeal.

https://detail.chiebukuro.yahoo.co.jp/qa/question_detail/q14259983374

"Why is Tenshin Nasukawa taking the risk of switching to boxing? Is the presence of Naoya Inoue and changes in kickboxing rules the background?"
2021/04/22

To address such questions, we have invited a special guest this time. Trainer Takeshi Yamada from JB SPORTS BOXING GYM. While actively working as a boxing coach, Trainer Yamada has also been involved in coaching kickboxers and mixed martial artists for many years. He even coached fighters like Nasukawa and K-1 champion turned boxer Yoshiki Takei when they transitioned from kickboxing to boxing at a young age. He is a unique presence, well-versed not only in the boxing world but also in other professional combat sports.

One of the "backgrounds" that Trainer Yamada points out is the changes in the rules of kickboxing. He mentions that kickboxers like Nasukawa and Yoshiki Takei, who would be proficient enough in boxing, emerged due to the rule changes in kickboxing. Let's have him explain it.

"Kickboxing has gradually become closer to boxing."

"Fifteen or twenty years ago, kickboxing not only involved punches and kicks but also included clinches, elbow strikes, and knee kicks in matches. So, there were quite a few scenes of grappling during matches. In essence, it was like Muay Thai. However, it was decided to change the rules because such grappling scenes were not considered interesting for television. As a result of gradual changes, it has now become the norm that 'grappling is not allowed' in kickboxing matches held in Japan. That's how kickboxing in Japan has progressively moved closer to boxing."

"In the past, kickboxing had a relaxed rhythm centered around kicks, similar to Muay Thai. The theory was to put 70% of the weight on the back leg and 30% on the front leg. Boxing, on the other hand, is based on bringing the center of gravity to the body's core. In that case, the weight distribution would be 50% on the back leg and 50% on the front leg. This results in the head position being considerably forward compared to kicks, leading to a significant change in defensive techniques. Kickboxing tends to have a sturdy stance, while boxing is characterized by quick footwork."...

Trainer Yamada continues,

"With the changing rules, the importance of boxing techniques has increased even in kickboxing. As a result, more kickboxers started attending boxing gyms and learning from boxing trainers. When fighters like Tenshin and Takeuchi began their kickboxing journey, it was already common to incorporate boxing training into kickboxing practices. So, they repeated boxing training from a young age and became completely familiar with it. The rule changes in kickboxing have produced players like them, lowering the barrier for kickboxers to transition to boxing."

The Impact of "Monster" Naoya Inoue on Tenshin Nasukawa

Certainly, when observing kickboxing today, many fighters adopt a boxing-like stance, swiftly moving their legs. The importance of punches in attacks seems to have increased. The assertion that kickboxing has become quite boxing-oriented appears convincing.

Backing this up is a pattern that works the other way around as well. In the past, it was common for transitions not only from kickboxing to boxing but also from boxing to kickboxing to end in failure. However, recently, Junki Sasaki, a former Japanese ranker in professional boxing, successfully transitioned to kickboxing and became a champion in the organization called Krush. While Sasaki has a background in karate, his success seems to indicate a diminishing gap between kickboxing and boxing.

Now, it's clear that changes in kickboxing rules have given rise to players like Nasukawa. But what could be the trigger for such transitions? Trainer Yamada explicitly mentioned the presence of Naoya Inoue, the "Monster" holding belts in two out of the four major organizations in the bantamweight class.

"I think he felt, 'I can become like that too.'

Inoue's presence is truly significant. He takes the main stage in Las Vegas, gaining respect in the American boxing world despite being a lightweight Japanese fighter. Of course, his fight purse is substantial. Such a player has never existed before. Inoue and Tenshin have similar body sizes. That's why Tenshin, watching Inoue, felt, 'I want to become like that. I can be like that.'"

"In the past, even if a boxing world champion became famous domestically, they were often not well-known internationally. However, the boxing world has now globalized, and information flows worldwide through the internet. There is an increase in players competing overseas. In this context, Inoue has achieved a position that previous Japanese world champions struggled to attain: being recognized globally and fighting at the center of the world."

"So, what we're aiming for is the path Inoue [Naoya] has taken."

While the monster [Tenshin Nasukawa] has already received high praise globally, there is still the potential to reach even higher stages. By participating in more matches overseas and showcasing high-quality performances, the fight money of 100 million yen earned in last October's match could skyrocket even further, and undoubtedly, his reputation abroad would also soar. That is precisely what Nasukawa finds valuable in the challenge of "boxing." Trainer Yamada thinks so.

"I believe that performing well overseas, increasing visibility internationally, and earning a substantial fight purse are truly attractive. If he were to become a domestic boxing world champion, I don't think it would change his current situation that much. He already has the fame and income surpassing that of a boxing world champion. So, what we're aiming for is the path Inoue [Naoya] has taken. Although Tenshin is younger, it's destiny that they exist in the same era."

If we add one more thing, it's important not to forget that Nasukawa, in transitioning to boxing, has the backing of Teiken Promotions. Receiving support from Teiken, the largest promoter domestically with strong connections worldwide, will undoubtedly be a significant force as Nasukawa strives in the world of boxing.

The change in the environment, brought about by the rule changes in kickboxing, has given birth to a prodigy in martial arts with excellent boxing skills. Now, inspired by Inoue's success, Nasukawa has decided to transition to boxing. Whether Nasukawa can achieve his big dreams remains to be seen. One thing is for sure – Nasukawa's boxing journey will undoubtedly attract significant attention from its very start.

https://number.bunshun.jp/articles/-/847826

 

"(Boxing) has an incredible level of trust from the public," he said. There is another stance as well. It's not just about facing opponents, but always adopting the attitude of "fighting against the world." By turning to boxing, Tenshin realized the "authority" of being recognized by the world as a ring sport.

"Quite a few people know that I switched to boxing. I get encouragement from uncles, women, and children on the street, saying, 'Good luck with boxing.'"

He also felt the difference in media treatment.

"Just by announcing the switch, it was covered in newspapers and reported on national news... Even my debut fight was in all the newspapers, so I thought, 'Oh, this is how it is.' It has a proper history, and I realized the incredible trust from the masses. It made me feel that it's truly acknowledged by society as something legitimate (as a sport)."

https://number.bunshun.jp/articles/-/857731?page=2

 

Why in hell Ngannou, with a defeat, is in position 25 in the boxrec rankings?

 

It,s about right i think.....

 

The rankings are a joke and purely there to save face. Ngannou embarrassed Fury who shamed the sport and there's no escaping that truth.

 

I thought boxrec rankings were supposed to work based on results?