Francis Ngannou vs Derek Chisora, December 2023

"You must hate Fury to think the fight is anything other than a very poor showing from Fury."

It can be a poor showing from Fury and Ngannou can still be much better/more dangerous than previously thought, analogous to the Wallin fight. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

"As I said people had been successful from lower weights plenty of times before."

I never said otherwise. The point was that Holyfield was written off because "he's a cruiserweight, cruisers don't succeed at heavy, the division has no money and prestige". Just as Ngannou was/is written off because "he's an MMA fighter".

"I haven't mentioned Hardy, you keep mentioning him for some reason."

Hardy provides a low baseline. He's top 100 but nothing compared to Ngannou.

"I said this fight will tell us if NGannou is capable of beating a world rated HW."

Cool, I respect that.

 

Ngannou-Joshua was up next for about 24 hours, then Hearn said "maybe in the next 6-12 months" lmao.

 

"Fury at his best clearly dominates NGannou"

I think movers will give Ngannou most trouble but he'll match up better with other styles.

"It's a moot point."

We're not going to agree on this. MMA has existed for much longer than cruiser did prior to Holyfield moving up but I didn't say that the comparisons were exactly 1:1. Just as Holyfield was dismissed for being a cruiser and was the first cruiser to have success at heavy, Ngannou may be MMA's closest equivalent as a trailblazer.

"He provides no baseline. Mixed martial artists are all a plethora of different skills."

Hardy is a boxer/striker with far less experience and ability than Ngannou. If Hardy is at minimum top 100 (and he may yet rise a lot higher than his previous high of 94th), the vastly superior Ngannou is going to have a lot more success still.

 

"takes him seriously"

People said the same about Wallin. "Fury thought he was another Tom Schwarz". Ok, but he still showed a lot.

"That's pure speculation"

It's "pure speculation" that Ngannou (Fury SD10) is a much better boxer than Hardy (KO'd in 1 by Alexander Flores), based on their respective MMA careers as strikers and how they've performed in boxing...

Your "pure speculation" is my "evidence-based prediction". Hopefully we'll see who is right before long.

 

"But Wallin was a pro fighter"

So is Ngannou. He's been training boxing and MMA striking for 14-15 years, sparred Takam and Joyce for years, just gone to a 10 round SD with the No.1. We've seen far lower level MMA strikers beat experienced boxers with far less time in boxing, so it's unfounded to assume that Ngannou likely won't have more success than someone like Hardy, who got sparked in 1 by Flores. He already has.

"As it stands my money is on Chisora to win."

Will you post your betting slip if the fight happens? Or is this just figurative?