Frank Bruno vs Evander Holyfield

Oh for Pete's sake, Tubbs actually won the first around against Tyson and was doing well before the knockout.

 

Tubbs was offered a bonus to come under a certain weight and it was an achievable weight he had made before. He deliberately came in over that! It must have effected his natural ability.

Thomas fought nobody of any merit since losing to Berbick. Some say he even went off the rails again. Lord knows what he went through. What that did for his natural ability I shudder to think. He did not meet any gatekeepers after Berbick and before Tyson. He got that fight with his name.

Tubbs? Since losing to spoon he fought a middleweight or something. That was about it. He also did not beat so much as a gatekeeper in the interval between spoon and Tyson.

Holmes was certainly inactive before fighting Tyson.

Spinks had not beat a rated heavyweight for two years before facing Tyson.

I am not slamming Tyson here but if these are good wins (as I think they are) so is Brunos win over Coetzee.

 

Can you show me an article or interview where he or one of his handlers said that he deliberately did this?

He had lost only once in his career and had never been stopped. He had fought five times within the same duration that Coetzee had only fought once.. He hadn't undergone any major surgeries which hindered is chief attributes.. Honestly, this is an apples to oranges comparison.

He fought three journeyman in 1987, which is more activity than Coetzee had seen between 1983-1986. That "middleweight" had been fighting at heavy for quite some time.. And once again, his physical abilities were unaffected by any medical problems..

Yes.. But that fight happened for different reasons. A match between two ATG champions was intended to be crowd draw.... And not a way of finding a safe and easy opponent as was the case in Coetzee vs Bruno.

See above. And also factor in that spinks was undefeated and not as inactive as Coetzee.

Oh it WAS a good win. But not good enough to build any real legacy off of, nor can it be used as a beacon for hypothetical head to head match ups..

 

The Japanese promoters offered Tony Tubbs a $50,000 bonus to weigh less than 235lb. Tony said he would come in at 230 but came in at 238lb. It was revealed before the fight that Tubbs had a falling out with his trainer Ritchie Giachetti who would claim a lack of motivation on Tony's part. "I tried to kick him in the ass, try to get him in shape but Tony did not like that. It's a shame. The guy has real ability but I don't think he is in good shape"

 

Yeah, Tubbs was a lazy slob, everyone who ever managed/trained him admits that, and the scales don't lie.

He was 228, 229 pounds when he beat Smith and Page in 1985, and those were his only wins over relevant fighters up to his fight with Tyson. He was 10 pounds heavier for Tyson, his trainer walked out on him, he couldn't even get in shape for a 50 grand bonus.

As for Pinklon Thomas, there was talk of him being washed-up BEFORE the Tyson fight. Also, apparently he had a shoulder injury going into the fight.

Still, Gerrie Coetzee v Bruno in 1986 was a worse case.

 

Officially one judge had Tubbs winning the first round. Another judge had Tyson win the first round and the third judge had the first round even. It was a quiet round. Nothing happened.

 

Being lazy says nothing about a "deliberate" action, but in any event, Tubbs was usually over weight for most of his bigger fights. He was still a better opponent for Tyson than was Coetzee for Bruno

 

I also gave Tubbs the round, he even started the second one well. More of an effort than Coetzee put up against Bruno.

 

It's negligible. Coetzee took on a good gate keeper and was rated higher than Bruno with the WBA. This was not the case when those ex champions fought Tyson. They were either inactive or fighting journeymen not gate keepers.

Holmes was drinking beer and fishing for two years before fighting Tyson and he lost his last two fights.

 

I have to disagree. No offence though.

 

That's a fair post.
You won't find me saying much different. Tyson fought plenty of guys who had no recent form or were on their way down.

 

Reggie Gutteridge said Tyson went easy to give the fans their money's worth in the first round. It was a slow start for Tyson.

If the champ holds back the challenger will look like he has made something of an effort. It looked like gentle sparring until Tyson opened up.

 

That "gatekeeper" was beaten in his PRIME by Pinklon Thomas.. Both Tubbs and Thomas were far more active going into the Tyson fight, had never been stopped, had been beaten fewer times, along with not undergoing any performance hindering surgeries and ultimately gave Tyson better fights than Ceotzee did Bruno.. The Holmes fight was already explained as well. It was a novelty match where two ATG named opponents were meeting in what was supposed to a passing of the torch and not a way to keep one man's career from drowning.


P.S. 1988 Holmes >>>>>> 1986 Ceotzee

 

I don't buy that. Fat or less fat, Tubbs was a solid boxer and Tyson needed a little time to figure him out, that's all there is to it.

 

It was the slowest start Tyson ever produced. It is more likely he held back for the promoters sake. His opponent blew a 50k bonus to come in out of shape, his trainer had walked out. As soon as he opened up it was over. Had it been the first round it would have been a farce.