Frank Bruno vs Floyd Patterson

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Jay1990, Jan 12, 2018.

  1. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    You make very good points.

    And I see what you mean about attributes but it’s been my experience that if you find a guy that represents the antidote to beat another the class still has to match up. It’s championship rounds that count. And I don’t think it did. I think Frank would beat Moorer. I think he would beat Michael Spinks. He would have beat Bonecrusher in a rematch. I would give Frank a better chance with Holyfeild that Foreman fought than I gave George. But without landing those fights and getting enough of those kinds of wins he didn’t progress to the kind of level Floyd was on.

    I know Franks whole career. I know somebody who fought him. I followed him very closely. And there really was only great fighters that would beat him. The assets bruno had were good. Perfect jab. Good accuracy and he could really box. But levels were very very important. If a guy was a lower level than he was it was fine. Frank could excel so still reasonable fighters like Bugner, Williams and Tillis he dealt with fine. Against set up type guys that everyone fought Bruno often even did a better job on them than guys he would lose to. Also his match making and career timing was excellent. Coetzee was perfect career timing etc.

    However, If the opponent was close to franks ability franks energy would drain out of him after 5 rounds. In fact after 5 he was not even half the force. He was perfectly placed to beat Witherspoon. There wasn’t anything Tim did better than Bruno apart from relax. And that’s all it took. Tim was not even in good shape.

    So in theory Patterson could freeze up too. Like he did with Sonny and Frank could destroy Floyd under that circumstance. But Sonny was a much better fighter than Frank Bruno. Sonny could go right through the levels in class and take breathers staying relaxed. Liston did not drain off like Frank did. So I don’t see Floyd getting so unnerved with Frank.

    Patterson could match a Tysons boxing performance on bruno without Tyson’s power. It was the sheer speed of Tyson that unsettled Frank as much as the extra physical strength and power. The explosive way Floyd fought his rematch with Johansson would be problematic for Bruno.

    I see Frank being dangerous early but staying far too tense to do himself justice until the fatigue sets in. The fatigue that prevented him winning big fights with Smith, Witherspoon, Tyson and Lewis. Once that sets in all the physical advantage Bruno has goes and Floyd would exchange with him in the way he was able to with Chuvalo and Bonavena. His work rate would I think wear an already blowing Bruno down and stop him about round 13 like Holmes did Cooney who also drained down to a much less potent fighter after a few championship level rounds.
     
  2. juppity

    juppity Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Patterson great boxing skills but he had a bit of Norton , Golota mentality
    against big punchers. Yes Bruno might be cumbersome but he had serious
    power and ram rod jab. Bruno size and power too much for Patterson.
    Bruno ko in 3 rds.
     
  3. crixus85

    crixus85 Active Member Full Member

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    Yes you are mistaken that Patterson's management, to be accurate, avoided Williams in the early 60's. Floyd was finishing off the Ingo trilogy in 60 & 61 when the return fight clause was written in stone then came the Liston fights. In August '58, it was another Texan, highly rated Roy Harris, the state champion who fought Patterson. Earlier that year, in London, England, Patterson boxed an exhibition with Dusty Rhodes, while on the same card, Cleve won on a D/Q over D?ck Richardson. A rematch was arranged but Williams pulled out at the last minute. Reason he gave was that he had received a "message from beyond!" No, The Big Cat, was never in the frame, perhaps he had fallen out with the spirit world!
     
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  4. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    All true. It was always an absolute nonsense that Williams was ever the leading contender to Floyd. He was rated highest when Sonny was champion but he’d already beat him. As you say there’s no way Williams was ahead of any of the guys Floyd fought.

    And the story of Richardson spooking Williams is true as well.
     
  5. johnmaff36

    johnmaff36 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    All considered ATG punchers have at least 1 or 2 wins over fighters that were 'live' opponents. I dont think i seen Bruno KO a 'live' opponent. They had all seen better days. With the exception of McCall, who he did not KO (no shame there as nobody ever did KO him) the other 'live' opponents he faced all beat him. im not saying he couldnt punch but rather that i personally believe its somewhat exaggerated.
     
  6. InMemoryofJakeLamotta

    InMemoryofJakeLamotta We Do Chicken Right!! banned Full Member

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    Depends on who you fight. Absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence. Plus, just because someone is a better fighter doesn't mean one is a more durable fighter. So if someone KO's a top tier fighter who isn't particularly durable, does that make one a great puncher? I say it's when power is consistently demonstrated over many opponents.
     
  7. johnmaff36

    johnmaff36 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Forgive me mate but i dont even know what your 2nd sentence means regarding this instance. Your first sentence completely backs up my point. In fact much of your post actually strengthens my point. You can knock out 100 chuck gardners but it dont mean squat compared to knocking out several top tier fighters. And your right, being top tier doesnt necessarily guarantee durability but it does prove they are better quality boxers/fighters that belong at that level, and the KO'ing of them should , and does, be afforded more brownie points
     
  8. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    I agree with these points in so far as Frank did not knockout the best guys but I still think it’s a bit rich to say Frank can’t KO live opponents when you regard the only live ones he fought as Bonecrusher, Tyson, Witherspoon and Lewis!

    There never was a guy who fought all four who went 4-0. How many from history?

    I don’t think Morrison or Ruddock knocked out especially good men. Ron Lyle or Big cat Williams either.
     
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  9. johnmaff36

    johnmaff36 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    yeah fair point. I didnt say he couldnt, im saying he didnt. Im not saying he couldnt punch but that i feel its somewhat exaggerated as, in my opinion, he never showed this power when it really mattered against, lets say, better opposition than what he was used to knocking out. Just out of curiosity, who would you say were 'live' opponents he faced who hadnt seen better days other than the 4 mentioned?
     
  10. InMemoryofJakeLamotta

    InMemoryofJakeLamotta We Do Chicken Right!! banned Full Member

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    Who has Wilder or AJ knocked out to lead one to believe that they are ATG punchers? AJ stopped a 41 year old Wlad Klitchsko who had already been stopped before when significantly younger. Yet, if either would retire today, most likely, history would remember them as ATG punchers.

    Take George Foreman for instance. It's not like after Foreman stopped Frazier and Norton that his punching power suddenly increased, he had the power all along. And he still would've been able to hit just as hard had he never stopped Frazier or Norton.
     
  11. BlackCloud

    BlackCloud I detest the daily heavyweight threads Full Member

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    Changed your tune somewhat regarding Wilder as a puncher!?

    Read your opening post here:-

    This content is protected


    Bit of stange turnaround?
     
  12. InMemoryofJakeLamotta

    InMemoryofJakeLamotta We Do Chicken Right!! banned Full Member

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    That was a rhetorical question go away
     
  13. BlackCloud

    BlackCloud I detest the daily heavyweight threads Full Member

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    Sure it was.........
     
  14. johnmaff36

    johnmaff36 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Wait....what? Who said Wilder or AJ were ATG punchers??? Certainly not me. As for the Foreman example you gave, George PROVED it at the highest level. Frank didnt. I know what your saying about the fighter having the power regardless but the point im making is he never done it against the elite (for lack of a better word}. Your actually backing my whole argument up here mate
     
  15. InMemoryofJakeLamotta

    InMemoryofJakeLamotta We Do Chicken Right!! banned Full Member

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    I'm just saying that as it stands now, many do or will consider them both ATG punchers.