Tommygun711 - I've not heard it said before I came on this forum, anyway! But just because it's said doesn't necessarily mean it's true, no? The argument here is did Frazier actively AVOID punchers as has been claimed above? Did Joe avoid the punchers you mention, or were the matches just not made? For example, he twice beat Quarry, who knocked off Foster & Shavers...Lyle wasn't on the radar really until after Joe lost the title, and then he was largely looking to fight Ali...I don't remember there being a particularly big demand for Frazier-Lyle at the time?
The only possible reason Bruno is given a chance here is because of the foreman comparison, but the Frazier that foremen beat was not the real Joe Frazier who peaked in the late 1960s. Foreman was a heavy underdog against the champion because Frazier’s stock at that time was still based on his peak years and current unbeaten record. Im a big Bruno fan but a peak 1967-71 Joe Frazier had too much precision for Bruno and maybe foreman..
it would certainly look that way to a new historian. lets get one thing straight, frazier was always a lot better than foster lyle and shavers. yes he did not fight them but his victims beat all 3 of them. fraziers peak ended in 1971 anyway, after the bugner fight joe basically chased ali staying busy against opponents he already fought because the money was in ali-frazier fights. joe was basically a part time contender then looking for super fights. foster lyle and shavers were all schooled and beat up by quarry who frazier beat within and outside his prime. there was no more demand for fights with lyle, foster and shavers than the ones joe took. as well as quarry, another frazier victim ron sander, knocked out shavers. as well as quarry, joe bugner and ali both beat Mac foster. same with lyle, frazier beat the "men"who beat the "man". at his peak frazier was a great fighter. shavers, lyle and foster were exciting contenders but no better than machen, chuvalo, bonnavena and quarry were in their day.
Maybe im wrong here but i have never ever heard in my life anyone suggest that Frazier ducked big punchers. The first ive ever heard or read about it was on this thread, and,IMO, is utter bollox
He had an awful chin. Okay he didnt often go down, but maybe it would have actually been better to be someone like Calzaghe who would get knocked down but had extraordinary recovery power. Bruno however was the complete opposite, if he got caught clean he would just freeze up and hed stay like that for a damn long time. As for the fight Frazier within 5, I dont think Bruno has the footwork to keep Frazier at bay hence its a matter of time before Frazier gets a few good left hooks in. A flush Frazier hook would be devastiting for a boxer like Bruno in my opinion.
Agreed choklab, and agree with your comment in post #47. You've said what I've said in greater detail. How anyone can dig out Frazier is beyond me...proper, old school fighter, proper old school Heavyweight Champion of the World. A man you would want on your side, no question.I believe that anyone who claims that Smokin' Joe avoided anyone, or questioned his courage on any level, doesn't know or understand the man. Ron Lyle's comments in "Facing Ali" appeared sincere, and you can tell Lyle held Frazier in high esteem.
atschatschatsch GEORGE FOREMAN WOULD KO ANY FRAZIER ANY DAY OF THE WEEK. STYLES MAKE FIGHTS. OF COURSE JOE WOULD BEAT BRUNO.
yes, joe frazier never avoided anybody, he faced foreman twice and george was the worst match for him. Joe frazier is the most brave boxer ever. He would face satan in the hell.
No,I don't know these things as "cast iron fact";and neither do you for that matter.I don't know for a fact that Mike Tyson didn't break his back before his fight against Clifford Ettiene like he claimed.But at the same time I'm also not gullible enough to believe that he did. What proof do you want? Do you want a handwritten statement from Frazier himself admitting that he went out of his way to avoid them? The argument that you're using could be applied to someone like Khan,who quite blatantly avoided punchers throughout his career,though there is no way of proving that he did. And this argument that Frazier didn't need to fight them because Quarry beat them is complete bull****.Rankings don't work like that and neither does boxing.That's just acknowledging that he did avoid them.
Frazier stops him around 8 with the scorecards roughly even and one knockdown for Frank, is my guess.
I find that argument to be bull**** because Frazier still ended up beating Quarry and Bonavena who were always better contenders then lyle foster and shavers
You know there's a compelling argument that Joe avoided punchers because aside from the fights he had with big punchers, he didn't fight ANY big punchers. Also, the moon is really an alien space station. ...See Icke.
**** dude, when you put it like that... Bruno KO Round 0 (I put Round 0 because before the fight even begins, Frazier shits himself and passes out)
You know what else? ...He avoided fast fighters, aside from the speedy ones he fought. ...Hype job assed ducking scamboogah. :-(
