Frank Warren was asked the difference between now and when he first started....

A bit of a generalism, don't you think?

Some fighters struggle to do 12 rounds, sure, but some struggled to do 15 rounds. Then there are guys today who could easily do 15 rounds and those from the 15-round era, who would struggle to do 12 rounds at a higher pace.

 

One thing I've learnt about this debate over the years is it never goes anywhere

Interesting all the same.

It's amusing to think in 100 years people will be saying Pacman is primitive and couldn't live with the contemporary fighters.

 

These arguments will roll on forever.

 

I've been around elite athletes and coaches for years. I've been writing for fitness publications for almost two decades. And I've studied the history of boxing training.
I don't know what every coach is doing in every sport, but I know a fair bit.
I've noticed that while the body scientific knowledge grows, training methods stay roughly the same. What changes is the understanding of WHY that training works becomes a little bit deeper.

You pretend like you know it all. But you convince me training methods changed dramatically, because I can see it first hand. The same old stuff - intervals, circuits, varied intensity, explosive, plyometrics, weights, drills, and exact same stretches and technique and equipment.
Same as its been for decades.

 

Fighters today are highly tuned and comparable to a top F1 car. They won't last 27 years, but for the short time they race, they will be perfectly tuned. It's the same with fighters, which is why going peaking as little as a week early has such a dramatic effect on their bodies. Conditioning and nutrition now, in all sports, is a science. Whilst fighters from the 1940's were busy in the ring and had lots of fight, they never came close to the precision training that fighters today have. Not even close.

Like I said before, take any fighter you want from any past era, Robinson, Armstrong, Greb, Pep, Ali, Williams - Anyone, and if they had Alex Ariza working for them, they would be a better fighter.


This is exactly what I have been trying to explain, it wasn't that long ago that I had someone preaching to me that weights would slow Me down and my young silly arse was listening to them.. I have no doubt the likes of Pepp and Greb thought smoking and drinking was part of a healthy diet. Sport science is now a massive part of things. This became even more relevant to me when I started to work with a top strength & conditioner about 12 months ago... Still like I keep saying though it's all opinionated until you actually do it yourself and you feel the benefits yourself as I personally have... ;-)

 

Bang on Gaz the fighters of old had more fights and with only one champ, the route to getting a shot was so much harder. Boxers were tuffer then full stop. As for boxer being fitter now,Im not sure about that, weighing in on the day and 15 round fights sounds harder on the body than weighing in the day before with a days rest and 12 rounds.

 

Actually, Greb and Pep almost certainly didn't think smoking and drinking was good for their fitness.
The problem with such a statement, even if you meant it in jest, is it portrays people of the past as either completely stupid and/or ignorant.
But then you end your post by saying "until you actually do it yourself and you feel the benefits" .... But the top fighters and trainers of the past had the same faculties of commonsense and experience. They noted benefits too.
There were trainers who were experts and were meticulous in getting fighters into tip-top shape.

What do you think you and your strength and conditioning coach do that is radically new or different to what fighters and trainers did years ago ?

 

Skills-wise, most modern boxers are very flawed compared to the best out there. Relatively recent guys like Ronald Wright and Bernard Hopkins are sound technicians, have good footwork, excellent defence, position themselves properly and punch correctly.

Mayweather is another one - he's technically excellent.

But those guys are few and far between. But keep in mind that until the 80s, guys were fighting 15 rounds. Championship fighters these days fight 12. So Warren's assertion about fitness doesn't really make sense, like-for-like.

 

It was said in jest pal, the only thing I do agree with is that the fighters of old are much tougher I do believe that to be true but regards to fitness and technique I believe they are well behind our standards of today IMO ;-)

 

Also my training is very advanced just an example is I use air pressure machines instead of free weights I also use many different versions of running from interval to endurance and so on, I don't believe they knew what was the benefits of this type of training all them years ago but then again that's just my opinion..

 

Apples and oranges.You just cannot compare yesterdays technology with todays.Unfair and unbalanced.

 

How can you say they are fitter, when the old timers used to fight 20-30 fights a year, 15 or even more rounds, and modern fighters do 2 or 3 a year at 12 rounds?

If modern fighters were doing just as many fights, and throwing more punches per round, then I'd agree. You have to look at the evidence, not just make assumptions. Do modern fighters throw more punches? Do they fight longer fights? Do they fight more fights? IMO no they don't.

I agree they probably have better diet and training routines, but their workrate seems no better, and maybe worse than in the past.

 

I'm going to bring the great Sugar Ray Robinson into the argument. It's acknowledged that the way he prepared and trained was way ahead of its time and set new standards. Does that not tell you something about how things were before he came on the scene?
And Ray went 15 rounds 12 times in 200 fights. 6% of his fights. Lets not make out that fighters doing 15 rounds was done on a weekly basis.

 

There is no consensus whatsoever among strength training coaches or experts as to air pressure machines being more effective than use of free weights.
The strongest athletes in the world use free weights. But if you prefer the machines for specific purposes that's good.

Anyway, resistance is resistance.

Interval training, and varied runnning protocols have been part of training for decades. "Wind sprints" and "Fartlek" and "HIIT" and whatever they call it now, the principle has been a staple of training for years.

I'm glad that you're benefitting from better training with a new conditioning coach, all I'm saying is that people have been training intelligently and systematically with these methods and knowledge for years. :good

 

Is it ?

Please elaborate.