Frazier’s Chin Rating?

Your point wasnt proven just because you keep repeating yourself. Do you have any idea how long it would take for me to compare literally all of frazier's opponents and 50 boxers you listed? I'll keep saying its subjective because it is, unless you got hit by those men or interviewed trainers/opponents who discussed their power at length you can't know for sure. Hardly any of those 50 boxers have common opponents with frazier's competition so its impossible to know for sure. It's worse that you've picked guys from like a century ago who have very little or no footage and state its a "fact" they hit harder than fraziers opponents. You're very sure of yourself for such a flimsy stance with little evidence.

Your assessment of how a swarmer can be successful is only partly correct. In order to our work and outland an opponent, a short, short arm swarmer must press forward into the opponent's firing range at the start of every round. And they must be willing to either A) take some shots to give some, B) have good defense to block/evade some of those shots on the way in, or C) all of the above.

Option A, taking shots to give some, is only a viable option if the swarmer has a very good chin (no less than 7/10). Its simply impossible to be a SUCCESSFUL swarmer with poor defense and also having a weak or average chin. Option D) be flat footed with basic defense and an average chin with a strategy of simply overwhelming with volume is a suicidal plan in almost any weight class, especially heavyweight. You might pull it off for a while but eventually you will get your ass kicked. You keep bringing up the supposed lack of punchers on fraziers resume, but you do not need to be a huge puncher to stop a reckless swarmer picking option D. Look what happened to the normally tough Robert Guerrero, he was brutally stopped by Figueroa who isnt exactly a devastating puncher. Frazier would have been found out much sooner if he his chin and defense were as bad as you say.

You also certainly won't have as much success as Frazier did in a stacked division full of talent. You do realize Frazier was a gold medalist and his only losses were to 2 ATG's...? He wasnt some barroom brawling bum with no skill or ability.

Ali stopped him after 14 gruelling rounds ONLY because he literally couldn't see and his trainer threw in the towel. He was neither knocked down nor knocked out. Had nothing to do with Frazier being "chinny". He also went 30 rounds with a younger more prime version of Ali previously and in all 3 fights never went down.

He was dropped by Bonavena twice early and went the distance with him without wobbling or being rocked hard again. Bonavena caught him early before he warmed up, its not that big of a deal. You can compare it to marquez vs pacquiao 1 where the guy who was dropped rallied and came on strong the rest of the fight. Or marciano vs walcott. No says marciano or marquez were chinny because of those performances. And in the rematch he didnt go down once.

What part of frazier was never counted out do you not understand? A short aggressive swarmer who you rate as having only a 6/10 chin and 6/10 defense would have at least a few knockout losses. I rate his chin at a 7-8/10, anything less is nonsense.

Against Foreman, if he had bad or even average recovery he would NOT be able to get up six times in the first place! Do you hear yourself? How many boxers with bad recovery can get up 6x against anyond, let alone against George Foreman of all people?

I didnt ask you about his heart, i asked what you rate his RECOVERY, the ability to bounce nack after being hurt on a scale of 1/10.

 

Foreman never fought shavers! You're acting all high and mighty like your opinion is fact but you're stating things that are historically inaccurate.

Ali had a granite chin. Top 5 of all time. Using him as proof to take a shot at Foreman's power is silly. Ali also blocked and parried a lot of his blows, many of which went to the body or elbows.

Mendoza does not understand boxing. Im explaining things you learn the first few weeks at a gym and he's vehemently disagreeing.

Good point about Lyle being counted our despite taking less punches than Frazier. Why do people insist on saying he had a bad chin when he was literally not once counted out? Can you think of a single boxer in history with a bad chin who got up after evert knock down?

 

Patterson got up from 19 knockdowns (out of 21). Frazier got up from 11 knockdowns. We're still cool, right?

 

Anyone getting hit like that is going down. No question. Question is who's getting up?

 

Who got up from EVERY knockdown

Nice try tho!

 

Foreman never fought Shavers. Are you saying Foreman was over rated as a puncher ?

Lyle was counted out , Frazier was not. Frazier fought a much better, Foreman and was hit much cleaner, flush shots .. watch the fight.

Lewis, I doubt it. If Foreman could not ended Frazier with ten I doubt Lewis does it w one.

 

That is incorrect. Foreman and Shavers never fought.

Lyle faced a Foreman who hadn't fought in 2 years, and changed his style to the point where it noticeably decreased his punching power (still very powerful)

Doubtful. Foreman lifted Frazier into the air with quite possibly the most powerful uppercut ever seen and that did not "end" Frazier.

 

Frazier was the only fighter in all of Foreman's victories between Peralta II and Young to answer the bell for round 5 without having yet been dropped. So much for others taking Foreman's shots better than Frazier.

 

This means little. How many people who fought Foreman only once made it past two rounds? By you logic they have better durability than Frazier.

 

Rating the chins of great HWs (for comparison):

10- Ali, Foreman, Vitali
9- Holmes, Tyson, Holyfield, Liston
8- Marciano, Bowe, Dempsey
7- Louis, Lewis, Charles, Johnson

Where would you put Frazier? I gave him a 7 earlier, 8 seems more reasonable.

 

Frazier in the rematch lasted longer in his feet, and in general than any of Foreman's defeated oppenents in 7 years. Nobody with a "chin level" of 6 could accomplish that.

 

I would agree with 8, 7.5 to 8.5 being the window I would think of. Not iron not glass just a very solid very good chin IMO.