frazier fotc 1971 vs foreman 73.

We are talking prime Foreman. Does you no good to make up a scenario where foreman is not at his best. Stander was a rough and tumble puncher a totally different fighter than Ali. It did not surprise me that Stander rocked Fraser...the guy could bang. Bottom line though is Fraier cut him to ribbons in a one sided fight.

Frazier just did not have the style to beat Foreman or even give him a good fight. Frazier...the way he fought...was like putting his head in the mouth of a cannon. Any one punch from George could end the fight or at least the beginning of the end.

 

I think Frazier at his very peak may do marginally better. He may hurt Foreman and be more competitive overall.

I still believe that Foreman was too powerful down low in his wheelhouse {uppercuts}. As stated before the jab sets up those uppercuts and Joe is there to be hit by a bigjab that George possessed.

Foreman still KOs him.

 

I am not making anything up. watch ted gullick against Foreman at his best then watch Frazier against bob foster or ellis. you cant pick Foreman and thats why Frazier WAS favorite. most did not realise how far back he had went ...apart from dick sadler.

Foreman beat Frazier because Frazier could no longer land first. Watch fights from Fraziers prime, he punched his way in. Frazier could time that hook at long range and beat longer armed men to the draw. He was not swapping punches until he got the first punch in.

Joe was reduced to feeling his way in and giving away free shots. Frazier could have lost to bulls like bonnavena, chuvalo and quarry quarry if he had of been as bad as he was versus Foreman. You can give away free shots to ali and bugner but nit those guys.

 

Foreman early, of course, same result or very similar. I do since much evidence in Joe career that he could take the kind of power George meted out, maybe he does does land one or two and George has a few moments of trouble- the end result is still Joe being battered like a rag doll.

 

This made me laugh no end, the use of capital letters really drove the point home. How many undefeated champions actually going into a bout as the underdog (unless fighting a champion/star from another division)? Hardly any...ever. And at heavyweight it's far more rare than any other division- even considering 'champions' never mind undefeated one. In heavyweight title fights before this one you could count on one hand which world champs were underdogs and when they were it always the type who'd won the title by an upset or had plenty of defeats (e.g. Braddock; Walcott) or was fighting a legend (like Charles vs Louis), not someone who looked like a fish out of water for much of his fights with Greg Peralta.

Nobody knew how good Foreman was back then, some 'thought' he could be the future but nobody envisages that an undefeated heavyweight champ would be beaten so badly by someone who was largely untested at that level. Foreman didn't look quite ready...but Frazier was just made so obviously made for him, this inexperience was cancelled out.

 

:huh Have I missed something here? That's a bit harsh isn't it? The guy legitimately thinks it would be a bit more competitive but that George stops Joe inside 5 rounds.
So what's so outrageous about that?

 

I think there is a hypothetical scenario and a case can possibly be made where the best Joe could beat George; a scenario where Smoke gets through the early rounds and drowns George in (& I hate this term) deep water, where stamina becomes a factor.

But I wouldn't bet on this scenario. Joe would have to avoid most, if not nearly all, of George's bombs to get through the early rounds and still be functional enough to drown George - and I don't see this happening.

 

vinegar, yeah, you missed a lot of things of this ******... very soon you and all the complete forum wil know who really is this punk

 

There was a time when a lot of people believed that '71 Frazier was better than any version of Foreman despite losing to him in '73 and '75. A lot of the respect for Foreman came after his good showing vs. Holyfield in '91.

I remember seeing Frazier rated above Foreman in books and magazines as late as 1990.

I think a '73 Foreman KOs any version of Frazier. I do think Frazier does much better than he actually did though.

 

Frazier was rated all time higher than Foreman largely because how well he did vs the no 1 all time Ali. Nobody worth his salt believe any Frazier would beat Foreman.

Foreman coming back after 10 years in retirement to win the true hwt championship is one of if not the greatest accomplishment in sports. Certainly this propelled George in all time rankings.

 

your easy pleased then. :good would you make Foremans version of Frazier a favourite over the same Bonavenna, Quarry and Chuvalo prime Frazier could beat to the draw and stand with? Would you be as confident Jamaica Frazier still beats those guys if Frazier is no longer meeting them with blows on the way in like he used to? Wouldnt it be a different fight if he was taking them on the way in like he was against stander and Foreman? Could you honestly rule out Joe taking free shots from 1960s bonnavena, Quary and Chuvalo not being as disastrous as taking free shots from Foreman in the 1970s?

Sure, sometimes this happens, This is one way of looking at it certainly. Have you perhaps considered the reason why Foreman flunked the Ali fight was because he did not get past the same man who beat Ali?

The Norton win was good but not unique. Ken just froze, the occasion got to him every bit as much as Foremans accurate but naive slugging that paid off so impressively. It was almost too easy a win. Thats how bad Norton was that night ..and he never fared well against big punchers.

 

Interesting that Frazier was not in his best condition in either Foreman fight.
Joe did much better the second time but was too heavy, not in his best shape, and
too damaged from all the ring wars. On the other hand, Foreman showed up for both fights in the best shape in his career. Would have been interesting if FOTC Frazier fought George with the same plan as the war-torn and out of shape '76 Frazier.