This is Joe at tail end of his career, fighting with guts and glory against his nemesis Ali. Bravely fighting till the 14 round and giving ali hell despite been almost blind. Up against the towering cooney. Undefeated but untested gives a legendary holmes one of his toughest fight s. Can the pride of frazier battle through against the contender or is cooney a little to much here for Joe? Battle of the hooks!
I've long been a fan of both these fighters and would hate to see either lose. Joe certainly has the edge in experience, and at this stage in his career he is clearly on the decline. His speed and reflexes have slowed. Since his loss of the title to Foreman he has decked Joe Bugner and Jerry Quarry and been staggered by punches from Bugner and Ali. Sports writer Dick Young observed that whereas Frazier had rolled with punches in the past he was now taking them flush. His rematch with Jimmy Ellis in March, 1975 was rather dull, Joe taking nine rounds to stop his man with no knockdowns. This stands in contrast with his 1970 title unification fight with Ellis in which he stopped Jimmy at the beginning of the fifth round following two devastating knockdowns near the end of round 4. His intense rivalry with Ali enabled him to put it together for that one last great effort. Cooney of 1982, as noted, is undefeated yet really untested. Like George Foreman's early career, his record boasts a string of early round knockouts. His record contains a few name fighters, like Ron Lyle and Ken Norton, but these fighters were long past their best. But his vaunted left hook produced some spectacular knockouts. He broke Lyle's ribs and in his last outing before Holmes, took Norton out in 1 round. Even in 1990 when he fought George Foreman he shook up Big George in the first round. Foreman would say that only Cooney and Lyle had so 'rung his bell.' It would be a full year from the Norton fight when he would fight again, against Holmes. Despite being floored in the second round against Holmes, he got up and made a decent and courageous showing before the fight was stopped in the later rounds. As to the Manila Joe vs 1982 Cooney, I see this fight as a question of whether or not Joe can get past the early rounds when he is most vulnerable and take Cooney into uncharted deep water in the later rounds where Gerry would be more vulnerable. Cooney, I believe, has the harder left hook, especially in this encounter. Cooney did best against fighters who were in front of him, as Joe would be. Joe did not fare well with Foreman, a big puncher. In Frazier-Foreman I, he charged forward into George, TKO by 2. In the rematch, he lasted longer by adopting a more defensive style, but lasted only until the 5th. While Cooney was not as well-rounded a fighter as Foreman, he would always be a dangerous opponent for Frazier. If we were talking about prime Frazier, I believe he would grind Cooney down and stop him by the middle rounds. Looking back at both their careers, how they rebounded from defeats, handled the pressure, and overall gameness, Joe clearly comes out on top. But for here, we're looking at them at strategic points in their respective careers. Manila Joe wasn't punching as hard and fast as his prime version. 1982 Cooney was at the top of his game, not having experienced the agony of defeat. I doubt that Joe can take him out early, and that his best chance is to try what did not work in Foreman II, take him into later rounds. I don't believe that would work against 1982 Cooney, either. I would pick Cooney to stop Manila Joe in an early round after an intense shoot-out.
Very good detailed answer pal. Yes u have to factor in cooney youth and Joe decline , Joe was wanting that win badly cos of who he was facing so would he have the same edge in this fight? Cooney would have had more chance of success in this fight I believe than against holmes. Joe managed to fight one more fight like that because of the passion he felt but against cooney I believe it may have been to much and cooney would have stopped frazier. It wouldn't be easy but at this point I think Joe had had his day.
Don't forget unforgiven this is a young hungry cooney who gave holmes a damn tough time and Joe at that point was really fighting half blind and fighting Ali a few years from retirement.
Yeah, but Frazier was still a beast in Manila. Not afterwards, but on that night he was formidable. I remember Cooney being on rubber legs and on the floor in round 2 against Holmes. I feel Frazier would have got to him too, and worse.
True cooney went down but got back up to go on and give holmes hell. And Joe especially at that point was a slow starter which was opposed to cooney who did a lot of his best work earlier on in a fight.
I don`t think he gave Holmes that tough of a night. Cooney may have went a few rounds longer than expected but Holmes controlled that bout IMO.
