Frazier & Norton vs Foreman - wrong strategy?

Norton most definitely did not try and box George. he engaged him early, hence why he got bombed out. He tried sharpshooting George the same way he did Ali and got caught by a much bigger puncher than he who forced him back and destroyed him. Norton for me performs better against boxers, less well against 'punchers'.

Frazier's style is all wrong against Foreman, he isn't going to box him on the backfoot and by means of his height and style he is cannon fodder for Foreman; in perfect range for his low-slung uppercuts and hooks.

IN MY OPINION :good

 

Guy above me is wrong. Norton backpedalled and tried out-boxing him. It was the right strategy but the wrong strategy for his style. Norton doesn't fight on the backpeddle well. If he went right at George he might've gotten knocked out earlier. His chin won't hold. Frazier fought his fight he just got bombed out of there and couldn't recover. Watch Frazier I and II against Foreman and tell me he didn't go after him. Foreman was just pushing him off and Frazier wasn't in the best condition.

 

On a further viewing I've realised why I was wrong. Norton was originally caught with his back to the ropes.

It was after recently re-watching 'Champions Forever' when Norton said that he wanted to go straight at Foreman that altered my perception. And I'm one of thew admitted Foreman devotees on here

Agree with your thoughts on the Frazier fight as they are similar to mine:good

 

But didn't Norton also say on Champions Forever that "I tried to box him, and get him in the later rounds to tire him out. But it never got that far." Either way, it's all good our minds slip for the moment here and there.

And then Foreman was like. "I was scared of Ken Norton"

 

When George unleashed his jab on Norton, he hit Ken in the heart and drove him backwards.

George thought he was invincible and played the part.

 

no.

 

Yeah probably that, look bud I smoke a lot and ain't that smart anyways, my brain is fried

George continually says how he was terrified of everyone. Seems very humble in this. But yeah, he was apparently very scared of Norton, hence why he wanted to get rid of him early. Says the same of Frazier but it might just be false modesty.

 

Both of Eddie Futch's men weren't the greatest defensively.

Norton preferred to use the cross-arm technique and I always questioned his actual approach overall to fighting. Kenny seemed to follow in the vein of counterpuncher, but he didn't move his head enough or throw enough hooks to the body off of jabs to be considered a counterpuncher. As for Frazier, I've discussed his fights with Foreman in previous threads and my viewpoint doesn't change. Foreman fought Frazier when Joe was far from his prime shape. Again, I won't say that Frazier would beat Foreman, but certainly could have put forth a much better perfomance had if he treated George with the same respect to training and conditioning that he paid Ali. George wouldn't have KO'ed the FOTC version of Frazier inside two rounds. Prime Joe would have made Foreman miss a lot more punches, and he would have attacked George off the angles when he was pressured himself, just like he did to Chuvalo.

 

Wrong strategy ?

Yes, I'd say.

 

Frazier did much better against Foreman in their second fight. But the only way for Smokin Joe to be effective is to get inside and land those power shots. And to do that, he is right within reach to get struck by Big George. Trying to fight George from the distance enabled Joe to survive a lot longer in the second fight, but there's no way Joe can hurt you from the outside.

Having said that, I'd give Dempsey the best chance against Foreman. He'd get knocked out eventually, but Jack would patiently wait for an opening to attack, ala Jess Willard. Marciano, Frazier, Tyson and Tua go right at you.

 

And he did better in the second fight when he was in terrible physical condition, the guy had friggin contacts in during that fight I believe.

First fight, well, lot of factors there.

Wrong strategy, living the high life leading up to the fight and not training enough, arrogance.

He without doubt is partly responsible for the slaughter that we got.

 

Your thoughts on what Frazier needed to do against Foreman in order to be effective are exactly right. He has to get inside Foreman's punching radius, lay on the man's chest, and work the body.

However, the third man in the ring in Jamaica let Foreman get away with push-offs and wrestling moves in order to keep Frazier off of him. Plus, that was definitely not the real prime Joe Frazier in the ring that night.

Prime 205 pound Frazier of 1968-1970 definitely has a viable, fighting chance against Foreman, despite the bad matchups of style. I wouldn't bet on the outcome, I'm just saying prime Frazier with quicker movement and a hungry attitude is in with a better chance than many give him.

 

I would bet 1000 dollars on 73 Foreman against prime Frazier. If that's a fight you wouldn't bet on then you should never beat on any fight basically. Frazier is tailor made for Foreman. If anyone thinks Frazier chances against Foreman in his physical prime get underrated they are crazy. Frazier basically has to keep Foreman from not landing a bomb all night. He can't take his power and he was to wear and break Foreman down. His chances are long. Saying people underrate his chances is like me saying people underrated what Marciano could do against Foreman. It's just untrue but some people like to hold that high position on their favorite fighter.

The whole Frazier was past it is overstated. 2-3 years of his prime and 2 years and a few fights after his ATG FOTC performances. Frazier obviously was living the high life but he was still in his 20's and not that foregone. He got destroyed by Foreman. Frazier in his prime does better but obviously loses. The only thing is he gets destroyed less. It might go 3-4 rounds... maybe 5. If he develops a similar game plan to fight 2 he can last even longer. But he won't win that way just survive.

 

Frazier was honest after both fights.

He credited the "New Champ" after Fight One, and said "George hits a ton" after
Fight Two.

I always have had respect for Joe.