Frazier & Norton vs Foreman - wrong strategy?

Could n't have put it better,myself. :good

 

If they fought a thousand times, George would beat Kenny a thousand times. Joe could maybe get in better shape and have a remote shot with his heavy hands.

 

This is exactly the reasoning why I don't believe those who are adamant that Foreman always destroys Frazier inside two rounds.

Joe himself said after the Jamaica title fight that he fought a dumb fight, underestimated Foreman's ability as a boxer, puncher and olympic gold medalist. Frazier's physical condition at the time of the 1973 title defense speaks for itself as well. Boxing history showed that Foreman beat Frazier two times rather easily, but Foreman himself said that Joe was one of the toughest fighters he fought and a couple of the left hooks that he landed stung him.

I don't believe George would have an easy fight with the Joe Frazier of 1967 - 1970, just prior to the FOTC. This version of Frazier was faster, harder to hit and of course was in much better condition than the fighter who showed up to defend the title in 1973. I'm not saying that Frazier would beat Foreman, but I'd certainly give him a legitimate chance at stoping George, especially at his prime weight and condition. There's no way Foreman would KO the FOTC version of Frazier and I'd be hard pressed to believe any other heavyweight in boxing history stops him. Liston, Lennox Lewis and Foreman all give Joe a tough fight as bigger men and have him down early, but none of them are stopping him. Ali was still considered the fastest heavyweight, hand and foot, and Frazier made him miss a lot of shots and still found a few rounds in the FOTC to poke fun at Ali.

 

someone mentioned the way Joe fought Chuvalo would have been the way to do it

But if it was the wrong strategy what was the 'right' strategy?

 

Foreman beats Frazier in all likelihood 10/10 times. Whether you like it or not. He gives more angles, counters, variety, but gets caught and can't take his power in a forward head on chest fight.

So what if Foreman doesn't destroy Frazier in round 2 via Frazier's prime. That was the ultimate destruction of a HW legend. Hard to repeat/match something like that.

Joe might have better tools but his durability/chin aren't good enough for Foreman. Therefore I give Marciano just as good as a chance against Foreman as I do Frazier.

 

PetethePrince, your forgetting that Frazier stood right in front of a scared Foreman and tried to outmuscle him believing that his ability and experience would win him the fight.

Foreman didn't fight the best version of Frazier, bottom line, and based on Foreman's stamina history, there's no reason not to believe a FOTC conditioned Frazier survives the early rounds against Foreman and potentially wears him down. I'm not saying that Frazier would beat Foreman, but I don't think Foreman beats Frazier 10 out of 10, prime for prime. Certainly Foreman doesn't hit prime Frazier as cleanly as he did in 1973. Joe had a smarter game plan the second time in 1976, making Foreman miss for a few rounds, but his sight was practically gone, legs were gone, and he wore contact lenses to see better. Prime Frazier gives Foreman a much tougher fight and perhaps would finish Foreman unlike Ron Lyle who couldn't finish Foreman.

As for Marciano, I think he has more than enough potential to hurt George early with his right hand power, no doubt about that. Marciano is more prone to cuts and he's not faster on foot moving forward and attacking. This alone makes me believe that he would have been caught by Foreman's bombs on the outside just like the Frazier who showed up in 1973.

 

Sometimes I feel like you don't even read what I write. I think a prime Frazier does much better. Did you see how he did against him in 73? He gets destroyed! So a prime one does better, uses angles, counters, jabs, etc. I think though. Frazier gets in there with that chest in, comes in and out and eventually gets caught and hurt. The whole fantasy of Frazier winning lies on him avoiding Foreman's best power shots. I think Foreman's jab would have to eventually set him up for something. Whether it be in round 3, 4, 5 or 1. I don't think he finishes as quickly or as good but I don't think Frazier puts Foreman in danger because I feel he gets hurt and turns into defensive survival mode.

Now, as for Marciano. I don't think Foreman bomb punches are the ones that cut. It's the slicing jabs from an Ali that would.

I do admit, Frazier stylistically has a better chance to beat Foreman than Marciano. However, Rocky I believe is more durable and has a better chin. I also feel he has better recovery powers. He probably gets bombed out by Foreman too. I just think their chances are remotely similarly.

 

A top shape Frazier from '70 makes it a war with George.
Foreman may win but Frazier gets in more shots this time.

 

Frazier is always going to have a tough tough time dealing with how physical and strong foreman was in there. He shoved Joe all over the place and Frazier would have to re-set himself to start over again. And Foreman throws the best uppercuts in the business. Both hands even. Most guys have 1 good uppercut at best and not Foreman. The guys that did best against George are guys that aren't the types stylewise to get hit with uppercuts.

As for Norton, he really doesn't have much chance against Foreman although a lot of people picked him to win in Caracas. Not too many were talking about any sort of rematch tho & Norton would've gone in as a huge underdog.

 

I think so. Joe should of found a way to stretch George to the later rounds. George hits too hard for anyone to try to trade punches with him or get in his kitchen. If Joe could of consistently get to Foreman's body and backed off and stretched George out for the later rounds, he could of won.

 

Frazier only had one effective way of fighting, and unfortunately for him it was suicide vs. Foreman.

I do think Norton could have adjusted his strategy a tad with a hit, run and clinch strategy. Foreman's KO of Norton was impressive. Big George looked very sharp in that one.

 

You can’t fight Ali to how you a fight George Foreman Norton and Frazier admitted they would willingly take mutiple punches from Ali to land a powerful shot to the head you can’t fight George like that you seen what happened in 73 when Frazier tried to bull doze foreman you can’t stand infront of a champion George unless you want your lights knocked out Norton wasn’t willing to trade with foreman just like Joe in the 2nd fight with foreman wasn’t willing to take one to give one cause they already knew the outcome in the 3 fights George shared with Joe and Norton they all ended in a tko