Frazier retires after FOTC, how is he rated?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Longhhorn71, Mar 11, 2009.


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  1. OBCboxer

    OBCboxer Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Great post. That's probably how it would go down. Thinking of it like that, he could be rated number 2 behind Louis.
     
    OBCboxer, Mar 12, 2009
    OBCboxer, Mar 12, 2009
    #31
  2. Longhhorn71

    Longhhorn71 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I think in the FOTC Frazier brought to the table all the factors that Ali had not seen before in one package.

    Ali was facing a Champion who was not afraid of him ( or confused by him like Liston), who had the stamina and will to win, the chin to take Ali's punch, the left hook that was Ali's known weakness, an adequate defense, the ability to cut off the ring, a substantial fan base, a great corner, and the pride to want to remain champion.

    Put all those factors together, Frazier is going to be a very difficult opponent for Ali to beat no matter when they fight.
     
    Longhhorn71, Mar 12, 2009
    Longhhorn71, Mar 12, 2009
    #32
  3. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member

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    Easily for me.
     
    mcvey, Mar 13, 2009
    mcvey, Mar 13, 2009
    #33
  4. markedwardscott

    markedwardscott Active Member Full Member

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    maybe top 5 for Smokin Joe
    Ali still could have recovered in the all-time ratings. Some people think the FOTC was a lot closer than the judges called it.
     
    markedwardscott, Mar 13, 2009
    markedwardscott, Mar 13, 2009
    #34
  5. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member

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    Debatable.
    Some might say Ali v Liston 1 or Ali v Foreman qualify.
     
    mcvey, Mar 14, 2009
    mcvey, Mar 14, 2009
    #35
  6. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member

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    Were the fights only draining to Frazier?.After FOTC Frazier" defended "against two men not in the top 20.Dont get any easier than that!
     
    mcvey, Mar 14, 2009
    mcvey, Mar 14, 2009
    #36
  7. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member

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    Clearly better than Ali? I disagree vehemently .After 3 1/2 years in exile Ali came back to fight the no 1 man with just 18 rds of boxing under his belt ,he gave him the fight of his life ,and us the fight of the century , put Frazier in the hospital and, with more rounds under his belt took a clear dec in the second fight, then stopped him in the third one. ALI is clearly better than Frazier imo.Frazier never beat a prime Ali, because we never saw him.And dont give me that crap that Frazier was washed up when he fought Foreman ,he was 29, the same age as Ali was when he came back for the FOTC.Frazier beat ONE ATG ONCE in 5 tries. ALI beat 3 ,6 times out of 7.Frazier got a beating in the FOTC ,but did win ,he then defended against 2 men NOT in the top 20 in defenses that were disgraces to the title.
     
    mcvey, Mar 14, 2009
    mcvey, Mar 14, 2009
    #37
  8. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. Full Member

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    That would be dicy. Frazier would not have a lot of fights, and looked shaky a few times on the way up vs Mathis, and Bonevena. I would say around #7 or #8 if Frazier retired after the 1st Ali fight.
     
    Mendoza, Mar 14, 2009
    Mendoza, Mar 14, 2009
    #38
  9. groove

    groove Well-Known Member Full Member

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    <I think that Frazier is top 5 if he retires. Firstly, he is clearly better than Ali, who proved himself as the dominant heavy of the 60s>

    What BS! I forgot that Frazier was fighting peak Ali NOT.
     
    groove, Mar 14, 2009
    groove, Mar 14, 2009
    #39
  10. Longhhorn71

    Longhhorn71 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Unforunately it was Ali's choice to take off 3 years from 1967-1970.

    He didn't fight.....so by default his last 60's fight was over an old Zora Folley.

    So his 60's career has to be judged on what it was....he may have not got any better and ended up just as you saw him against Quarry in 1970.
     
    Longhhorn71, Mar 14, 2009
    Longhhorn71, Mar 14, 2009
    #40
  11. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Eeeer...? :think

    Why would he have slowed down and declined physically if not for the layoff? How are you thinking here exactly?
     
    Bokaj, Mar 14, 2009
    Bokaj, Mar 14, 2009
    #41
  12. My dinner with Conteh

    My dinner with Conteh Tending Bepi Ros' grave again Full Member

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    Boxing News did an all-time top 10 heavies list in late 71, Frazier was 6th, Ali 5th. The 'then' usual suspects top 4.
     
    My dinner with Conteh, Mar 14, 2009
    My dinner with Conteh, Mar 14, 2009
    #42
  13. My dinner with Conteh

    My dinner with Conteh Tending Bepi Ros' grave again Full Member

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    Yeah, just like Liston, Patterson, Williams and Folley were in their pomp. London didn't even have a pomp. :yep
     
    My dinner with Conteh, Mar 14, 2009
    My dinner with Conteh, Mar 14, 2009
    #43
  14. Longhhorn71

    Longhhorn71 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Ali could have easily fought in Sweden, England, Canada, Europe, or other places in the world....during 1967-1970...but he didn't. Just stayed in the U.S and took care of his personal business. Should have been fighting.

    I am just taking what happened...he stopped fighting in 1967. Besides Liston & Patterson, none of the rest of his oppenents at that stage of their careers were great heavyweights anyway.
     
    Longhhorn71, Mar 14, 2009
    Longhhorn71, Mar 14, 2009
    #44
  15. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    They took his passport. He would have been fighting as a fugitive. He choose to refuse the draft and take the consequences, that's not the same as choosing not to fight.

    "Besides Liston and Patterson"? Are we just to ignore them? Liston is a top 10 fighter and Patterson probably top 20. That's two serious scalps. Add half a dozen solid contenders to that and you have some very good wins in just 29 fights.
     
    Bokaj, Mar 14, 2009
    Bokaj, Mar 14, 2009
    #45
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