Frazier the night he beat Ali vs. Douglas the night he beat Tyson.

i usually ignore trashy language and remain civil - but with your highlighted comments - you're the one that's ****ing stupid and not worth my time. i will ignore your posts as you are too stupid to be given any kind of regard whatsoever. good bye!

 

Well apologies for the language, but did Douglas not Knock Tyson out for the count, if actually not actually "out", with one combo?

What I mean is Frazier got up how many times against Foreman? And Tyson couldn't get up after 1 from who again? Buster Douglas? Hardly in Foremans universe.

 

How many clean punches did Tyson take from Douglas? Tyson did get up, by the way. He just didn't get up fast enough.

 

Tyson took somewhat of a long beatdown vs Douglas before finally folding. He took a lot of big shots in there, Douglas carries some good clout. He also took some decent punishment against Lewis and Lewis said he was surprised to see him still upright at a couple of stages.

 

Frazier wins, his workrate was tremendous in that fight and That Ali would beat Douglas and Tyson as well:rasta

 

This is tough. My initial thought was Frazier by late KO, but Douglas fought a magnificent fight against Tyson. He could be dropped by Fraziers left hook, but he took Tysons best shot which is more powerful than anything Frazier had and got back up and won. Douglas had such a great workrate in their fight too that him losing by getting outworked and stopped in 12 isn't likely either. On the other hand, Frazier when he beat Ali was as deadly a swarmer as was ever seen. He threw more punches than Tyson and was harder to hit than Tyson was. I could see Frazier getting inside on Douglas and landing more frequently than Tyson and being able to hurt him.

I'll pick Frazier by the slimmest of margins.

 

1. This was a declining Frazier.
2. It wasn't just "holding" in the sense of being the normal clinching you see in any fight; it was outright, flagrant fouling, over and over and over again. Watch the tape- virtually every time through the beginning, middle and end of each round, Frazier comes in trying to throw power punches and go to the body, and before he gets really close, Ali actually reaches out and grabs him behind the head and inside the left arm, then pulls Frazier in and pushes him down. He spends long time periods standing there effectively shackling Frazier's offense through completely illegal grappling (especially the holding/pushing behind the head, over and over), not trying to do anything offensively himself, essentially "fighting" by grabbing Frazier and pushing him down, scarcely even boxing. Frankly, I don't think this example illustrates much of any weakness on Frazier's part in the sport of boxing; it's more an example of a fighter (Ali) taking advantage of utterly incompetent officiating.

 

i'm glad the ref stopped the fight else we'd seen worse.

 

No way! Foreman's power is not overrated. Who else knocks down Joe Frazier 6 times in 2 rounds! That's ridiculous. You don't see many one punch KOs from George because he never cared to. He clubbed his opponents with blunt punches that were so powerful they'd immobilize you if they landed anywhere. Someone like Tyson was more precise so he'd throw fewer punches that weren't blunt but accurate and well place. Two different punching styles - equally destructive results. You're right that Foreman had sloppy punching technique - but his power was so great that it hardly mattered. Come on, I like Joe, he's from Philly just like me, but if the ref hadn't stopped the 1973 fight, it would have been just a KO if we were lucky. With respect to you, I will not continue this topic further because it is irrelevant to the thread and it is plain silly to question Foreman's pure power itself (his punching TECHNIQUE is another story but that's for another time).

 

Boy, I think this is a great concept.

I'm certainly in the minority here in that I think this one goes to the scorecards.

Who I think will win depends on what kind of refereeing there is.

I think the Douglas of Tokyo was an excellent fighter -- far better than he ever was at any other time in his career -- so I'm not one who attributes the result entirely -- or even primarily -- to Tyson's subpar performance. One thing that isn't commonly mentioned about Buster's performance is that he was clearly prepared to fight a rough fight. He hit on the breaks, he hit and held, he shoved Tyson and hit him with the other hand.

That's potentially a big factor against even the best version of Frazier. Tyson is heavier, more thickly muscled, and presumably harder to push around than Frazier. Buster was a bit bigger than George Foreman. Even if you account for the fact that Foreman never faced a Joe as good as FOTC night, you still have to see from the visual evidence of the two Foreman-Frazier fights that if a big man gets to shove him around without ref intervention, Joe is gonna have some trouble.

In the FOTC, Joe got hit with a zillion punches, but he ducked a zillion more from an Ali whose hands still looked to me to be faster than Buster's ever were. That Ali didn't really hold Joe, though. When Joe got close, sometimes he grabbed him and pushed him off, but he was still thinking he was just gonna outpunch him. (He changed that strategy for the second fight, big time.) If Buster isn't allowed to push Joe around, Frazier's gonna be harder to hit than he planned, he'll outwork Buster and outland him. I attribute Buster's KO losses to lack of will rather than lack of chin, so I don't expect Joe's gonna blow him away, and if it's the Buster of Tokyo, he had big heart for once in his life, so he's not gonna fold and will be around to hear himself lose the decision.

On the other hand, if he gets to treat Frazier like he treated Tyson, shove him backward with elbows and shoulders and then hit him, Frazier's gonna land a lot less and with a lot less force. I don't think Buster will knock him out, but just like it did against Tyson, the cumulative effect of a 230 pound man banging on him will slow him down.

So I'd say with Mills Lane refereeing, Frazier UD.

With Arthur Mercante refereeing, Douglas UD.

 

I can't honestly see Foreman destroying the same Frazier that fought Ali in the FOTC. Take nothing away from Big George because he did exactly what every smart fighter should do when fighting Joe Frazier. Get him out early or get yourself knocked out later. Watching Frazier from 1967- 1971 and watching him after 1973 is like comparing two different fighters. I think it's unfair to say that Foreman would have beaten Frazier every time based on the 1973 fight. FOTC, 205lb Joe Frazier, gives every heavyweight in history a very tough fight, including Foreman.

 

Hm...

How would a guy who made a career out of quitting fare against a guy who took a rematch with Goerge Foreman knowing he was blind in one eye?

Good question... tough call...

By the way, I'm being sarcastic.

 

Why can't other posters see this, Ali wasn't a dirty fighter but he bent the rules to suit himself when he could

 

Frazier would be more busy than Tokyo Tyson and wear Buster down with Body shots. frazier wins a UD over 15 rounds.:good