Frazier & Tyson who is greater?

Love the objectivity Kal.

Tyson annihilates Frazier H2H. Always difficult to say, but never any less true.

 

Now I think about it, you said it better. :good

You forgot Tyson's ridiculously higher chin threshold for taking big bombs.

I love Frazier too, but he only fought two punchers in his whole career, in Bonavena (floored him twice) & Foreman (floored him 8 times). I'd like to remind people, that while Foreman certainly hits with more raw power & blunt force trauma than Tyson, it's also visibly obvious that Tyson's devastating punching power is very significantly closer to Foreman's top level than Bonavena's lesser league power. That sheer power of Mike, combined with faster handspeed (at his Peak) than anyone Frazier fought including the super quick '71/'74 Ali, lethal combinations & ferocious famous finishing ability, aswell as the notoriously fast-starter against notorious slow-starter mechanic, mean poor Joe would be in big trouble & then some against Tyson best for best.

Frazier is most vulnerable to uppercuts (because his bobbing style of headmovement makes it extremely difficult to avoid timed uppercuts), & Tyson had one of the most dangerously discombobulating uppercuts in history, which he would land on Joe by either setting them up with his double shotgun jab, or sidestepping & timing their lightening fast missile-like launches straight off the bat; see the 3rd round of Tyson-Mathis jr. Before anyone mentions how sloppy & misfiring Tyson was in those first 2 rounds against Mathis jr, just remember he'd only fought a minute & a half in his first comeback bout against a useless bum following his 4 years 2 month prison layoff, so obviously he was severely rusted & needed to shake off a bit of rust against a quality contender to regain some fraction of his previous timing ability.

 

Yes sir, however Tyson has slowly been creeping up my list without me even realising. 11 last time I did it and he wasn't even in my top 15 2 months ago

 

That's around about where I have him, occupying the same spots as Holyfield and Liston. Wlad Klit is not far away either to be perfectly honest.

 

I certainly concur with that Pete, so please read & comment on my post. :good

 

I have Holy 9 Liston 10 Tyson 11 it seems our heavyweight Top 10 is pretty similar although im sure i have Foreman Johnson and Lewis higher than yourself. Tyson will never go above holyfield in my eyes, but could surpass Liston. What's your top 10 like?

Also on Wlad I think it's best we let him retire before I make a judgement. He's grown on me to be around top 15 currently however it's been a struggle having him there with such annoying fans :tong

 

Hard splitting them.

Both had 9 defences and a 4 year reign.

Tyson's big edge is h2h he rapes frazier and his comeback post prison career.

Frazier's big edge is he only lost to top ten atg's.

I was quite comfortable having frazier above tyson but I think i've jus convinced myself tyson should be higher.

 

Ali
Louis
Lewis
Holmes
Foreman
Marciano
Frazier
(Below this point, I change my mind alot)
Holyfield
Johnson
Tyson
Liston
Wlad

Yourself?

 

Aha Ive definitely misjudged what your list would be like.

1 and 2 are obvious
Ali
Louis
These 4 are interchangeable but this is my preferred order
Johnson
Foreman
Lewis
Holmes
Next 3 are locked
Marciano
Frazier
Holyfield
Always changing my mind in these
Liston
Tyson
Dempsey
Bowe
Wlad

 

I have a similar list SJ:

1-Ali
2-Louis
3-Lewis
4-Holmes
5-Foreman
6-Frazier
7-Marciano
8-Holyfield
9-Tyson
10-Johnson

 

I think Frazier has the better overall resume, particularly given the era that he fought in and the quality guys he fought, plus he had the biggest win of the two. FOTC was a phenomenal fight in every way. Frazier beat a very deep, experienced, and high quality level of opponent, most of whom were still game and frisky when he fought them.

Someone cited the fact that Bonavena decked him. This overlooks the fact that Frazier was only 11-0 when he fought the then 21-2 Bonavena, a guy who had wins over Peralta and Chuvalo coming into that bout, that Frazier still won the fight, and Bonavena was a guy who eventually rocked Ali and gave him and others very tough fights, and the fact that Frazier dominated for 15 rounds against Bonavena in the championship rematch. The only guy that dropped Frazier and won was Foreman, an ATG puncher.

Tyson had a hell of a run in his own right, the light that burns twice as bright but half as long so to speak, but his opponent level and/or best victory I think just falls short of Frazier's.

All that said, I still pick Tyson to KO Frazier relatively quickly. Styles make fights and Tyson's explosive fast two-fisted all out ferocious attack would probably be too much for Joe to endure early on, especially given that Joe would fight him straight up and not stick and move or run or grab and smother.

 

What was you expecting? I'm curious Sir, why is Johnson so high?

Pretty much identical!

Where are Wlad and Liston for you?

 

Ali
Louis
Foreman
Lewis
Holyfield
Holmes
Tyson
Frazier
Marciano
Johnson

 

It's curious how some have Johnson so high up and others have him outside their top ten.

 

If anyone is fit to elaborate, it would be a scholar like Pete.

I honestly have little else to put in or object. I stated what Tyson's strengths over Joe were and you detailed how he'd use them. Mathis is one of the few examples of Tyson's career when he wasnt up against a fighter far taller, rangier or generally bigger fighter that could somewhat hold relevance. It sounds like a slap in the face to Frazier, but that's a matchup I've always felt would require little strategy on Tyson's part.