Frazier & Tyson who is greater?

I think you expecting a but much from Johnson though.

He was a boxer and son of former unlawfully imprisoned uneducated persons. Athletes are rarely exceptional political thinkers, doubly so in such difficult times for Johnson. Any pro who enters the ring does it for money, not sure why you'd expect him not to pimp his race out to earn his keep in some of the worst years of American history.

He did what noone else had done till that time or was capable of doing, and I think thats the main thrust of the documentary.

 

The fighters in that quote are not even in the same zipcode as Tyson......

and the fighters in my post DID MEET GEORGE HEAD ON WITH A LITTLE BOXING MIXED IN AND THEY ALL WENT THE DISTANCE AND TWO WERE BORDERLINE ROBBED.

Fact : once Foreman met modern fighters of his own size he failed to KO them even when they where C level material. You can argue until you are blue but the proof is in the pudding.

Put Foreman in with a chinney undersized 200 pounder and he will look like dynamite again..............same with the one trick pony Pac, make him fight a flatfooted face first brawler who just got the **** kicked out of him in his previous fight he will look like a million bucks but have him a face someone who actually can box and thinks blocking punches with your face is a bad idea he looks like a amateur again........

 

Soundz like you have real beef with Big George, are you Larry Holmes?? :hey

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XPERT-post. :hat

 

Agree with this totally. Would also like to add that I think Frazier was considerably mentally tougher than Tuson and braver more consistently. I feel there were flaws in Tyson's emotional make-up that weren't present in Frazier's.

 

I believe that the flaws were there all along, but just weren't exposed in the timeframe you describe. But that may may be because his opposition during that period didn't ask the right questions.

I can't prove it, nor can anyone prove otherwise, it's just my view. I think that the fact that Tyson was displaying emotional instability outside the ring during this period (& before) suggests to me that these flaws were there all along...but hadn't come to the fore in the timeframe you mention.

 

Its true that the mental toughness goes to Joe Frazier in this comparison. That might not come into play unless Joe can get the fight into deep water. If he gets into even the 6th or 7th round and is still able to fight his usual fight Mike Tyson is probably in trouble.

But can he do it. One thing I dont like here for Joe is that he liked to crouch and bob and weave. I cant see Mike Tyson not landing those devastating uppercuts with both hands.

I think hook for hook Joe could more than match him but that uppercut that Tyson threw was uncoommonly explosive. Mike Tyson put his shots together better.

Chin? Well Tyson took one big shot better than Frazier but he also lost something along the way. He didnt keep taking chances the same once Tyson got shook.

Joe Frazier could take consistant punishment and keep fighting his fight and seemingly get stronger as the fight goes on. Tyson couldnt have taken the punches that Frazier took.

 

Canny good post m8 :thumbsup, But,,,,

Smokey Joe had ATG v.near limitless Stamina like Rocco Marciano, which makes it way better/easier for him to take consistent punishment and keep fighting back muthaphukkin hard as you do say he did v.well. Stamina is extremely important for taking punishment and that is a FACT, especially for come-forward stumpy-slugger types who have to keep punching powerfully as they charge towards teh taller man or they get beaten-up, and Midget Lisp had way less stamina then Smoke by a million miles. As in he "blew his load early" like a guy with premature ejacluation compared to Smoke the Stud who could go for hours like a guy on E. Tinfoil Tyson was getting terribly tortured round after round by 4/5/6 punch powerpunch combos and something like 40 outta 50 punches landing per round by Bummy Douglas, with Mikey only throwing about 18 back and only landing a couple good, we see a v.gassed Midget Lisp nearly collapse from exhaustion in Round 9 :tired, like when Big George nearly collapsed from exhaustion in Round 7 in Zaire (of course Ali is the GOAT so its not embarrassing for Foreman). now look @ Tinkerbell VS OG Holy in 96, poor little Mike gassed after 5 Rounds, got brutally battered by combos while dog tired, then TKO'd on his feet 6 Rounds of **** later :!:. and look @ Tinkerbell in 02 VS Lenny Lewis, gassing after teh 1st Round (ok to be fair poor lil Mikey was shot and old for his style, but deadly for his 1 Round of fuel), then got his **** pushed-in like a prison ***** for 7 Rounds of brutal beatdown of bombastic monsterous bombs which was 100% one-sided sickness.:ko


Foreman Hooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooook!:rasta

 

I thought Tyson was the greater fighter but Frazier the greater warrior.

 

I pretty much agree with your entire assessment Kal. My only quibble is you might be selling Bonavena's raw power short. I wouldn't doubt that it could be close to Tyson's when it comes to power. But there similarities end just with power, really. Tyson exploded with angles, and bunched rapidly in punches. Frazier would be doomed, and you're on the money with Frazier's vulnerability to the uppercut. Mike Tyson had arguably the best uppercut in HW boxing, although the guy that dethroned Frazier had a massive uppercut, too (One which wreaked all kinds of havoc for Frazier). The announcer called the same thing prior to the Mike Tyson-Marvis Frazier fight. While Marvis is no where near the fighter his father was, stylistically he imitated his father's bob & weave defense, although his style was not necessarily that of an in-fighting swarmer he did adopt the Frazier way as best he could with the attributes he had. Joe was criticized heavily for making his son fight like him and Joe basically would hear nothing of it.

To make sure we're not over-stating the vulnerability of Frazier's bob & weave (Which seems rather obvious with the mechanics and motion of it), it wasn't just Foreman that bombed him with it. Bonavena hit him good with a few uppercuts on the ropes, as did Quarry. Ali hurt Frazier in the 9th round with a left hookercut of sorts that was on the brief moment Ali stunned Frazier in the FOTC. At the end of the day for all of Tyson's offensive prowess that would surely spell bad news for Frazier- Tyson happens to have a terrific chin to boot. Not the type of chin that you can just bomb out. Of course, his defense is tight-night as well. I just can't see Frazier escaping the early rounds and doing so won't guarantee a win anyway. Tyson just isn't going to fall over. Frazier would have to out-will him and break him down. That scenario seems in line with the odds of a villain winning at the end of a superhero flick.

 

:scaredas:

:twisted:

You don't tow the line, though. Very unique & individualistic list. I just have internal reactions to Wlad at #6. And while we've had our discussions regarding Holmes, I'm having trouble seeing how Wlad can in any way by ahead H2H considering his obvious vulnerabilities to pressure against mediocre caliber fighters. Sure, he's improved but he still doesn't matchup to those fighters as well as Holmes. I'll admit he matches up better to boxers, but that's the still a big chunk of the battle.

 

Wait a minute Kalasinn.....no Louis in your list ??? :think:

 

Kal is Kal. It's refreshing and completely sincere.

 

Sad thing is that if Frazier did beat Tyson he wouldnt get full credit for it because Iron Mike`s fans would say his prime ended 5 minutes before the fight started. :yep