Frazier vs. Marciano

Examples of Frazier kos with his right please.

 

I haven't watched many of his early bouts because there not available, BUT when he KO'ed one of his opponents, before he became the Champion, Jim Jacobs made the statement that he had so many KO's and half of them were with his right hand and the other half was with his left. He made a point to say that he had equal amount of KO's with each hand.

I would have to go through my collection of boxing films to see which ones he was talking about.

To be honest with you, his statement took me by surprise as well BUT I never saw many of his early bouts.

I never said he had a Great right hand, I honestly think that it was just fair. Most boxing historians & experts rate Rocky's left as only fair as well. If I had to rate Rocky's left with Frazier's right, I might have Rocky's rated a little higher.

This is what one stated about Frazier:
His right hand was solid and hurtful, but it suffered in comparison to the one punch that not only defined his career but the image of his adopted hometown of Philadelphia – the left hook.

Again, if Joe Frazier fought the same opponents as Rocky did, I truly believe his record and KO record would be just as good.

 

Jim Jacobs was a great hand ball player and had a fine collection of fight films thats it. He did NOT have great insight into boxing and had a lot of his matches for his charges made under the aegis of Mickey Duff ,a close personal friend.I'm afraid I take that assertion with a pinch of salt .

 

I have high regard for Jimmy and so do most boxing people.

Frazier fought opponents that had an average record of W26-L5.4-D.95 - 81.7%
Marciano fought opponents that had a average record of W29.7-L10.2-D1.8 - 73.5%

 

I have a high regard for Jim Jacobs as a man of probity ,and compassion but not as a man with an in depth knowledge of boxing.

 

I seem to recall seeing a picture of Frazier after the 2nd Ali fight in my local paper and he didn't look to good.

 

Frazier cut up and stopped Quarry with his right in the rematch. He also had a good right uppercut which set up the big left hook and he worked the body with both hands.

His left hook was the knockout punch but I wouldn't say that he had no right hand to speak of.

Some videos to watch:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvR7PeRuCzU
Shows that he greatly prefers to throw the left hook but the right uppercuts do some damage as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyzFObCvtDk
Frazier cuts Quarry with his right.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V06uSWDRhvk
Look at Frazier go to work in the fourth round.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ys5ftt4y8UQ
Watch from about 2:25 onwards.

 

I'm not sure what you think the figures you posted signify.
You mentioned Frazier's early fights .
Well lets take a look.
1.Woody Goss tko1rd The fight is stopped because of Goss's holding after a knockdown.
2.Mike Bruce tko3rds Frazier down for a a count of 8 in 1st rd
3..Ray Staples tko2rds.Staples was a puffed up LH and had been stopped 8 times in his last 15 fights.
4..Abe Davis ko1rd. Davis had been stopped 8 times in 28 fights and would be stopped in ALL of his next fights [5] in a total of 10rds.Ko via left hook
5..Mel Turnbow ko1rd by left hook
6..Dick Wipperman tko5rds this was a respectable win.
7..Charley Polite tko 2rds.Polite had lost 4 of last 5 fights,the other was a draw.
8.Don Smith ko3rds by left hook
So ,in first 8 fights Frazier scored 3 kos,NONE via left hook
Other 5 fights were stopped by referees intervention , or corner man's
Conclusion } Frazier's early fights ,most were tkos with opponent conscious ,those that were kos ,were acheived by left hook.

 

I think he had a lot of knowledge in boxing. Just because he was a handball player, don't mean that he wasn't an expert on boxing.

Jimmy Jacobs was elected to the International Boxing Hall of Fame in 1993, as well as the World Boxing Hall of Fame, so others must have thought the same thing.

 

They tell you that Frazier fought the better opponents.

Frazier fought opponents that had an average record of W26-L5.4-D.95 - 81.7%
Marciano fought opponents that had a average record of W29.7-L10.2-D1.8 - 73.5%

Over 51% of Frazier's bouts were against boxers that were rated in the Top 10 at one time or another (13 different boxers 19 times in 37 bouts), Marciano is under 33% (13 different boxers 16 times in 49 bouts).

While there opponents were rated in the Top 10 (counting Light Heavyweight Champions at the time), Frazier fought 14 out of 37 for a 37.8% to Marciano's 11 out of 49 for a 22.4%.

Rocky fought his 1st top 10 contender in his 26th bout when he won a close split decision against LaStarza. He fought another 10 bouts before he fought another top 10 contender when he stopped Rex Layne. When he fought Moore that was only the 11th time Rocky ever fought a boxer that was rated in the top 10 when he fought them.

Thank you "TheGreatA" for bringing those tapes to light.

 

Jimmy Jacobs had a lot of boxing films and had a lot of clout in boxing but to say that 1/2 of Fraziers KO's were because of the right hand is
ridicules .....Fraziers right was not as useless as Cooneys but both men could be defined as one handed fighters without too much of an arguement from most.

 

Love your videos. Right to business.
Ziglewisz was a product of Hugh Benbow ,the millionaire oilman ,he put an ad in the Ring magazine inviting young men over 5 10 in and 180lbs[ziggy just qualified] to get in touch with him ,with a view to becoming pro fighters . He looked at Ziggy's close to his head ears and nicknamed him the "animal." Ziggy never beat a live fighter and the very fact that he was contesting a version of the heavyweight title speaks more about Benbow's influence and ties with the Houston Astrodome, than it does about the Polish boys ability.The fight shows Frazier doubling up his left hook to body and head ,breaking up the Pole.
Of the three fights you show this is the only one in which Frazier scores a ko.
Quarry was on his feet and fully conscious ,Ellis was retired on his stool by Dundee.
No one said Frazier did not have a right hand, my contention is that it was not as effective as Marciano's left hook . I have asked those who state that Frazier scored as many kos with his right as his left to produce ONE of them. The silence has been deafening.
I could go further and state that Frazier SELDOM KOD ANYONE, most of his stoppages were tkos and most of his victims like Chuvalo, Quarry were on their feet at the time.MY position is that Frazier did NOT pack the ONE PUNCH POWER OF MARCIANO.OR COMPARABLE POWER IN HIS OTHER HAND,in his case his right, in Marciano's his left.
Frazier was a VOLUME puncher who ground down his better opposition ,he hit Mathis allnight before bringing him down , banged Bonavena like a drum ,but never looked like flooring the man who was dropped by Folley and Ellis.Three times by Ali and kod Frazier's other wins were over an old Machen ,a Ramos who quit,Frazier caught Foreman flush with acouple of hooks in their first fight ,there was no reaction from George.
Keep Posting the Vids!:good

 

This is because of the era. After Paret was killed many referees stopped the bouts sooner then they did in the past.

As far as Frazier's right hand goes, when he became a contender he used his left hook mostly to score his KO's or TKO's. Most if not all his KO's by his right hand was done during the early part of his career. Jacobs made the statement not me and he had all the films.

 

Perhaps, but most often Marciano needed 1 or 2 knockdowns to end a fight compare to Joe's 4 or 5.

 

Lets not forget though that Frazier was fighting very durable men who were tough for anyone to get out of there with one punch (Chuvalo, Quarry, Ali). Against light heavyweights such as Bob Foster or less than stellar opposition such as Zyglewicz he looked like a destroyer which is often the case.

Marciano didn't always get his opposition out of there with one punch either, for example Don Cockell, Roland LaStarza, Archie Moore, Lee Savold. He had to wear them down.