Frazier VS Marciano

Lol. Ok

 

It's not.

As I said, this whole side track discussion started because gazelle punch said Frazier was dropped by lesser men than Moore insinuating Frazier had the worse chin.

I simply pointed out Frazier's chin held up against every light heavy sized opponent, notably bob foster who is often on top 10 hardest hitter lists for light heavies. Rocky meanwhile went life and death with multiple light heavy opponents. The evidence seems to support the idea Frazier had the better chin.

There were no Foreman sized behemoths in Rocky's resume.

 

By your estimation Ellis was just a blown up middle weight then. Why throw out the accomplishments of one and not the other because of past sizes? Charles was a better fighter then Quarry and Ellis and would beat them both imo. So would Moore and Walcott for that matter

certainly not delusional to think Charles NEVER had Marciano in trouble. If so please show me the film of this. Where Marciano is fighting life and death. Odd words as it never happened. It was said it was a very painful fight for Marciano as Charles attacked his body more then anyone but painful and in danger of getting knocked out are two different things

 

Agree, but i have to say that Charles was 1000× more dangerous H2H than Foster.

 

Lmao he was like 46 or something for that fight and obviously way out of shape. Terrible comparison.

 

Think I found it. Fighter named Mike Bruce (9-30) 199 pounds btw knocked down Frazier in his second fight. I suppose one can’t be blamed to bad for a knockdown in their second fight. Although I’m 100 percent certain Marciano wouldn’t get that kind of treatment.

 

Keep in mind to one particular point, both corners protected their fighters, overly to an extent. Al Weill would ask the referee during the one minute rest for one more round as Marciano was close to having the bout stopped due to real nasty cuts (the Charles bout). Joe had an overprotective manager too, Yank Durham is the one that did not want Frazier to fight a peak Muhammad Ali in 1967, when asked, he cited that Joe was too green for the likes of Clay (Ali). He also threw in the the towel after the last knockdown inflicted by George Foreman in 1973. The fighters corners would play a big role.

 

It's odd for me to say Rocky went life and death with Charles when he was warned he had better knock him out or he would get stopped due to a nasty cut? Never said Charles was about to KO Rocky only pointing out the FACT Charles was one of Rocky's toughest opponents and that they had an intense back and forth war twice.

This is what's hilarious about Rocky fans. When it's convenient his opponents were h2h monsters. When it's inconvenient, suddenly Rocky did not struggle in his fights.

Yes Ellis was a former middleweight. So was Charles, what is your point? Is Charles no longer one of Rocky's top 5 wins now?

Never said quarry and Ellis were better fighters than Charles. The point was quarry could certainly crack and was about the same size if not naturally larger than Charles and Frazier showed him no respect and walked through his punches. We were comparing the chins of Rocky and Frazier, not how skilled their opponents were.

 

I wasn't being serious.

My point was that your statement that Frazier was dropped by lesser men than Moore is absurd because Foreman is one of the hardest hitting heavyweights of all time and a 2x champion while Moore was old, a natural light heavy, and was never a HW champion.

 

That fight (Ali vs Moore) took place on Nov 15 1962 in Los Angeles, California.

 

Really debatable.

Foster was knocking guys out like they owed him money. He wasn't just a mere puncher either, he often makes top 10 atg lists and was skilled.

It's a bit like saying schmeling is more dangerous than deontay wilder. While schmeling is 100% the more skilled opponent, Wilder's absurd power makes him just as dangerous arguably.

 

When Rocky was a rookie he was so sloppy he would punch so hard that he fell to the ground and made the crowd laugh. Not hard to envision a veteran of more than 40 fights exploiting rocky's wide open slugging and scoring a flash knockdown.

If we're counting fights as rookies I guess we should count Dempsey getting kod by Flynn in 1 round too.

 

Moore has a much better HW record then most though. Something like 64-4 with the only losses coming to hall of famers one of which was avenged. And the last three were when he was 38,39,46. To just write him off as just a LHW when he’s had more Hw bouts and beaten more ranked men then most HWs is not a fair argument. If anything he’s a top ten contender for the Hw crown ever and he’s actually in my top 3 easily.