Frazier vs punchers gauntlet

How many times was Joe stopped. Twice both against the same man who happens to be arguably the hardest puncher in the game.
That's my criteria. It's who wins at the end of the day.
Styles make fights dont compare Ali and Norton because Norton had his face hidden behind that rt glove. Much more defensive than Joe so of course Joe is going to get hit more but again its who wins at the end of the day for me.

 

How many big puncher's did Joe face? Just one ( Foreman ) and he stopped him twice. Ali also stopped Frazier, so that three stoppages in not many fights. Frazier was stopped in 8% of his pro fights, which is probably higher than most ATG heavyweights.

Your criteria ignores what happened to him when he was hit by medium level punchers, and I think that is very telling if the argument is how good was his chin. If you disagree with what I wrote, the floor is yours to do so and we can look at the video in many cases. It seems like you don't want to go there, because I'm correct.

I agree with you, Norton had better defense, but it doesn't change how he reacted when he was hit by Ali. I also think if the first 15 was 15 rounds, Norton might get the TKO.

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Due to their styles who took more shots from Ali? For that matter who took more from Foreman and kept on coming?

 

'68 - '71 Frazier would soundly defeat:

Dempsey
Marciano
Lyle(How is he on this list?)
Old Foreman
Wlad

'68 - '71 Frazier would lose badly to:
Bowe
Lewis

50/50 fight(IMHO) with :

'86-'88 Tyson
Louis
Liston

 

Good point, if Frazier lacked defense and had the wrong style to face a puncher ( two things I agree with you on ) how is he going to beat other punchers listed in this thread?

Foreman's best performance could have happened on the night he meet Norton.

 

I dont need to be correct in your eyes. I dont play those childish games. If u think your right and that makes you feel better than good for you.
I disagree with you as I said befor. I'm not going to play this game with you because I simply disagree plain and simple. In my book Frazier has a better chin than Norton.

 

Because as we all know styles make fights

 

Dempsey

Frazier could actually be a bad matchup for dempsey. Demps liked to throw big savage hooks and set up big combinations. Since hes only an inch or so taller with a modest reach, hed be right in range for frazier to land his own hook and dig into demps body.

Factor that with dempsey losing steam in the later rounds and frazier working at an even greater pace and i see frazier stopping an exhausted dempsey somewhere around the 11th. On the other hand, if it becomes a war from the opening bell it could end up like morrison vs ruddock. This would be dempseys best chance at winning. Both men would be hurt bad an probably hit the canvas. I seriously doubt it goes the distance and if it did no way dempsey gets the decision.

Louis

Louis didnt like fighting swarmers but a prime Louis had a powerful jab and had dynamite in both hands with every punch in the book. He also had a significant reach and height advantage and unlike most punchers, excellent technique and stamina. Frazier would be heavily marked up and dropped by the 6th but then the real war would begin. I see Louis slipping for a few rounds and getting nailed a few times but he sucks it up and wins a close decision.

Marciano

Hmm i wanna say marciano because he could do anything joe could do and had a right hand but hes giving up like 15-20 lbs. Rocky doesnt have the size and strength to push frazier back or tie him up like ali and foreman did and thats not his style anyway. Plus Frazier had better defense and Rocky was prone to cuts. Its a very close call but the doctor orders it to stop at some point, either due to a clash of heads (2 swarmers charging at each other) and they go to the scorecards and frazier wins, or frim frazier simply landing too much.

Liston

Liston stops Joe in the 4th. Sorry but hes just all wrong for him.

Lyle

Depens on which joe and which lyle. Prime frazier of the early 70's wears him down more often than not and wins a decision over the inexperienced lyle. The past it frazier probably gets stopped by the more experienced lyle who survived wars with shavers, bugner, etc and threw with bad intentions with an underrated jab and nice overhand right.

Tyson

Prime tyson stops him early. Post Prison tyson gets stopped late.

Comeback foreman

Same thing as before

Bowe,lewis, wlad

Of the three, joe has the besr chance against bowe as he liked to fight on the inside. Wlad and lewis refused to take risks with short stocky guys. Bowe would win more often than not but the other two jab and grab him to death

 

You said, “Frazier did not take a good punch.”

 

Frazier does not beat a peak joe louis

 

This. Exactly this. Fraziers H2H evaluation has become a endless universe of stupidity, judging him by his win vs. the featherfisted "Greatest" (who was at downswing that time), a man with the perfect style for Frazier.
If the guy in front of him had whiskers and a punch, THERE WAS NO PLAN B.
"You know where to find him, he comes straight at you" - George Foreman

Even boxing "experts" with the biggest coloured sunglasses can imagine what happens if you put a fighter with the Style of Joe against a steamhammer with a compact jaw! There is no way out. Its like hitting a tin with a magnetic sledge-hammer. A one way trail.

Put Frazier against:

Ibeabuchi
Tua
Tyson
Foreman
Joshua

and there is probably no way Joe could win this the way he fought.

Frazier has better chance against less combination of power*chin, but I wouldn´t bet a single penny on Joe:

Louis
Lewis
Liston
Bowe
Morrison
Ruddock
Lyle
Hide
Wilder
Baer
Wladimir
Vitali
Bruno
Briggs
Smith
+ several more.

Frazier was a punch trader (for fighters not keeping the distance), which will always make him vulnerable to power*chin better than his own artillery*chin. Its no rocket science....

 

I've always given Rocky the edge over Joe because of his two fisted power, of course that has to be balanced by the fact Rocky was a bleeder and smaller and slower than Joe. I see no way Frazier beats Lewis or Tyson,Lennox is too big, too good a boxer ,with too much power.
It would be Foreman 2 imo.

Tyson does everything better than Joe imo ,and he is a lot quicker, hits harder and is appreciably bigger. I think Bowe beats him too,and unless he can untangle himself from the octopus arms of Wlad and land a hail mary on his chin he is getting systematically dismantled by the Ukrainian jabbed to death and then put to sleep.

 

You do make a good case Mendoza. Excluding foreman...Frazier never beat the fought the best big punchers of the era....Liston, Martin, lyle, shavers, Mac Foster...in fairness to joe, he beat the man (Quarry 2x) who defeated 3 of these men easily. You could chalk that up as stylistic issue.
I do think yank Durham avoided a fight with Liston. I have no doubt about it.

I would have liked to have seen Frazier beaten one of those big men, but by mid 70s Frazier was far past his prime and near retirement. He was just looking for 1-2 final paydays. He was fat and a bad alcoholic by 1973. Outside of Liston, Frazier met all the top names in the late 60s.

One can make a case Manuel Ramos was a big man with a very hard punch. On the Mac Foster level.

 

Robert I love Frazier too and he definitely cleaned out the late 60s era, and his win over Ali in 71 was one of the best of all time. But there's no doubt Frazier mostly beat very good boxer types who were medium level punchers. Would have been nice to have seen him fight and beat one of the big punchers of the era (Liston, M Foster, Martin, Shavers, Lyle)

 

Good post. Definitely think Liston beats joe too.