Frazier vs Vitali

Vitali

 

Frazier late TKO.

 

Thanks for supervising this topic Mr. Al-Ghul. So how would this fight go?
Which position is right?

 

In a perfect world I'd have smokin Joe Frazier beating every heavyweight from 1981 onward s!
.. But Vitali is, in my opinion, a step to far. Not to say that it's an easy beat up job for Klitchko, just that Joe has too much to over come here. I see Frazier never really managing to get his deadly pattern going here, where he could wear his man down and finish him off with his cannonball left hook s.
Klitchko Jab would jolt Joe's head back, the size advantage would have Frazier coming up short frequently and have his face showing damage quite early on.
Plus Vitali had a solid chin, hed take Joe's best shots and hammer his own in.
I see a fatigued Frazier, his face swollen and eyes closed, getting hit more and more clearly as the fight moves in to double digits and the ref really having no choice but to stop the fight.

 

Joe Frazier is a level above him, those Klit boys love a slow as molasses paced fight, he'll not get that with Frazier. He ain't stopping Joe, Vitali starts fraying around the edges late ,,this ain't Corrie Sanders. Frazier drowns him in the 13th round.

 

Vitali on UD...

 

Vitali TKO inside 7 rounds. Vitali was more skilled than Foreman was, in some ways and harder to catch cleanly. Frazier had a shaky chin, and its been documented here by those who hardly hit him, yet stunned or floored him.

 

Perhaps you can tell me who Vitali beat in his career that makes you think he'd beat Joe Frazier

 

Vitali beat at least 8 ring magazine ranked opponents, former lineal champions, and others who went on to become world alphabet champions. Almost of his victories were of the dominating variety; not one of them was close or had moments where the opponent shined. Which other heavyweight champions can say that about their victories? Maybe none of them! Name one if you can...

His two losses:

1 ) Happened because of a torn shoulder that required surgery in a fight he was winning 8 of 9 rounds on one judge's card, and 7-9 on the other two cards.

2 ) Based on a cut where he was up 4-2 on all three cards.

Both fights were taken on 2 weeks notice, and he ever got a re-match. Lewis balked. Byrd, who was managed by Don King fought who King had singed.

I can list many guys who can go 1-4 vs. Ali and Foreman, including Vitali. Outside of Ali, quite a few of Vitlai's opponents could have beaten Frazier as he simply fought very few punchers for a reason, and was bombed out by the one puncher he faced. I see no Liston, Martin, Lyle, Norton, Shavers...any punchers on Frazier's resume, and I know for a fact that Frazier's own people ( Cloverlay ) didn't fancy his chances vs.an old Sonny Liston. Frazier balked at the WBA tourney which had some guys who could punch a bit.

Fraizer's resume of wins is thin outside of Ali. Most of them were smaller boxer types without power that he matched up favorably with.

Joe didn't have a lot of fights, he was rocked or stunned by lesser opponents ( more on that later ), who hardly landed, and would be giving up 7-8" in height", 40 pounds, and about 7" in reach vs. an opponent who was never behind on the cards in any fight, never floored, and owns one of the highest KO% in heavyweight boxing history. Think about that for a moment.

Frazier had no jab to speak of, a very mediocre right hand ( I'm being kind ) , and seldom used uppercut. He could not fight to go backward; he had to be pressing the action to be effective. As such he wasn't versatile and was predictable. I find that Frazier swelled easy and was easy to clinch and move around if needed. He did have a great hook, but with his height and range would need to be very close to land on Vitali, who was seldom if ever caught with lead hooks.

Frazier had his knees buckled by Ron Stander who hardly landed.
The same happened with Joe Bugner, who hardly landed much.
And Ramos did the same.
And some unknown in his 2nd pro fight also floored him.

SAY WHAT? Yes, the above is true, see the films.

Perhaps the 2nd best puncher Fraizer faced in Bonevena, floored him twice, and to use Frazier's own words; he was close to defeat. On the 10 points must system, that fight is a draw. Vitlai was a much better boxer than Bonevena, and hit harder.

Who hits harder than these Frazier opponents that Vitali beat. H Hide, K Johnson, C Sanders, S Peter, S Briggs and D Williams, to name a few.

Examples as I listed above show Frazier chin wasn't very good, now ask yourself what happens when Vitali hits him? Briggs said Vitali hit harder than Foreman! We saw Foreman bounce Frazier around the ring twice. Vitali hits harder than the above names I mentioned, so the logical answer is Frazier is in trouble. Vitali, unlike Ali won't be taking any breaks on the ropes to allow Frazier to score the way Aii did, nor was he defensive as Bugner was. If Frazier got into range, past Vitlai's jab a or quick right, and moving feet, Vitali could manhandle him in a clinch, or put his weight down on Frazier to tire him out. Easily. Being a smart fighter, Vitali would know there's only one punch to watch out for ( the left hook ), and was a fair in-fighter himself if he wanted to engage there.

Fraizer did fight one semi decent big guy in Buster Mathis. Guess what, he was actually down on the cards midway through the fight, and the overweight Buster Mathis sort of gassed out, when Frazier came on. I see no chance of Frazier on points. Okay, Frazier might land some, Vitali had a A+ chin, Frazier's hooks looked weak vs. Foreman, who could be hurt by a bigger puncher, in say Lyle. Frazier's power showed vs. smaller men who would be cruiserweights today and often had to grind on these smaller men to stop them.

I see Vitali taking over and dominating this fight after round three, flooring Frazier, swelling up his face, and eventually getting a TKO. It's not a good match up for Frazier.

 

Vitali wide

 

For such a long response ,,you failed to mention a fighter he beat to make me think he beats Frazier? Only excuses for the two losses he has. There's a reason for your lack of response, he fought in a weak era.

 

I listed no information you are not disagreeing with. That to me says you agree, or can not say it's not so. Anyone who can punch can beat Frazier. Bonavena nearly did it as mentioned. You reaction to that is???? If Frazier fought Sanders, Briggs, Peter, K. Johnson and Hide, he's losing once via KO. That's my answer.

Frazier results vs. punchers are very suspect. If the 2nd tier guys could hurt / floor / stun him without landing much, the fighters I mentioned who hit harder than Oscar would do more. And Vitali is better than the punchers he beat. Heck he was out pointing Lewis.

Which man Vitali's size did Frazier ever beat? How about none, that is the game you're playing. I think Vitali would at least be 1-4 vs Foreman and Ali.

Frazier legacy is beating a Ali in 1971 but this was not the same Ali of the 1960's.

 

Well we have our opinions, but Vitali's claim to boxing fame is he lost to an aging Lennox Lewis because he looked like he'd been hit with a straight razor. Vitali had to put together punches, he wasn't a one shot power guy and Frazier fights every second of every round. Sanders? Peter, who got his azz kicked by a middleweight Toney? Hide? my point is proved his resume is paper thin and not one of the fighters you mentioned are better than Oscar Bonavena……...in my oipinion.