Frazier - Was he any less motivated for...

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Russell, Aug 16, 2007.


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  1. Russell

    Russell Loyal Member Full Member

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    The second and third Ali fights?

    I know it's been said more than once that Joe was slipping by the time of even the first Foreman fight. Lack of motivation and just about no one seeing George as the threat he'd later be. After all, Joe had just beaten Ali in the fight of the century. As it's been said, Joe was more or less just giving some joe schmoe a "chance" in the ring.

    Anyway, Frazier gained a few pounds for the second fight, Ali lost a few.

    Were there any other differences beyond that one?

    Just seems to be like he always had the raw tools to beat Ali... The ability to close the gap between the two, to make Ali fight Frazier's fight, a left hook (Which Ali was vulnerable to throughout his career) durability, stamina...

    And when they were applied like they were in the first Ali/Frazier fight, Frazier won.

    Could he simply just never get to that place, fitness and concentration wise, again? Did Ali stay or even get into better shape and batter Joe down even further psychologically?
     
    Russell, Aug 16, 2007
    Russell, Aug 16, 2007
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  2. Russell

    Russell Loyal Member Full Member

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    You can harness hate and direct your effort towards it or just let it eat away at you.

    I think Frazier did the first during their first fight, resulting in him being in the best condition of his life.

    I think the latter might of been true as time went on.
     
    Russell, Aug 16, 2007
    Russell, Aug 16, 2007
    #2
  3. Russell

    Russell Loyal Member Full Member

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    Yeah. The clinching from Ali has always gotten to me a little. At least he was skillful with it, enough so not to get points deducted.

    But he still did it to get through quite a few fights, and to wear fighters down considerably in others. But he was Ali... He could and did get away with a lot.
     
    Russell, Aug 16, 2007
    Russell, Aug 16, 2007
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  4. groove

    groove Well-Known Member Full Member

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    They had a fight in the studio just before their 2nd fight so of course Frazier was well up for it and as motivated as ever to beat Ali. Ali could move better and do it longer in their 2nd fight. He had 3 years of fighting before that one not just 6 months as in the first. Ali was in better fighting shape for the 2nd fight - no resting on the ropes or playing about. Frazier had only lost to Foreman at that point. Ali had 2 losses.
     
    groove, Aug 16, 2007
    groove, Aug 16, 2007
    #4
  5. fg2227

    fg2227 Guest

    In champions Forever, joe says he was more up for that fight than the first one.
     
    fg2227, Aug 16, 2007
    fg2227, Aug 16, 2007
    #5
  6. Lex

    Lex Member Full Member

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    The only fight in which I'd say Frazier's motivation was a bit off was in the rematch against Foreman. Not to say Frazier wasn't motivated. But he either didn't train right or had the wrong frame of mind going into the ring. He was too heavy and somehow thought a bald head would help.
     
    Lex, Aug 16, 2007
    Lex, Aug 16, 2007
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  7. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Less motivated? Absolutley not, no way.

    Less good perhaps. I think the first one took something out of him, I don't think he was the same after that. He was also having more trouble with his bad eye, it seems.

    But no, he was not less motivated.
     
    McGrain, Aug 16, 2007
    McGrain, Aug 16, 2007
    #7
  8. Russell

    Russell Loyal Member Full Member

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    Frazier had a lot of problems later on, it seems.
     
    Russell, Aug 16, 2007
    Russell, Aug 16, 2007
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  9. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Yeah.

    I think that he did take his foot of the gas a little bit between Ali I and II but George put him right. Painfully.
     
    McGrain, Aug 16, 2007
    McGrain, Aug 16, 2007
    #9
  10. buzzsaw

    buzzsaw Member Full Member

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    I think Joe was not the same physically in II as in I, but mentally he was just as driven to beat Ali in that fight and also III as he was in the first fight. Joe had a genuine disdain for Ali and would never need to “get motivated” vs. Ali. The ugly truth to this was evident years later when he referred to Ali’s present health condition as “Frazieritous.” Does anybody recall an interview (?) with Frazier, Ali and Holmes, where Joe’s ribbing of Ali went a little overboard and Larry stepped in and put his hand on Joe along with an “Ok that’s about enough” look? No I don’t think Joe was never NOT motivated to rip into Ali with hooks and uppercuts. I think even now he wouldn’t mind another crack at Ali.
     
    buzzsaw, Aug 17, 2007
    buzzsaw, Aug 17, 2007
    #10
  11. jhar26

    jhar26 Member Full Member

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    He wasn't exactly friendly towards Ali in his autobiography either. Frazier's hate is easy to understand considering the way Ali constantly tried to humiliate him during their careers, but still...

    But yes, it's definitely safe to say that Frazier was always 100% motivated when he fought Ali. I think that he would have been willing to lose five fights against tomato cans for another win against Ali.
     
    jhar26, Aug 17, 2007
    jhar26, Aug 17, 2007
    #11
  12. ThinBlack

    ThinBlack Boxing Addict banned

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    This.:deal
     
    ThinBlack, May 9, 2013
    ThinBlack, May 9, 2013
    #12
  13. ETM

    ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

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    Joe had health problems that got worse as his career went on. I think he was very motivated for all the Ali fights. I think he lost his focus after beating Ali in the first bout. He seemed to take his foot off the gas along with his health issues.

    If anything he was a little off going into his Jamaica fight with George Foreman.
     
    ETM, May 9, 2013
    ETM, May 9, 2013
    #13
  14. The Spider

    The Spider Guest

    There you go :deal
     
    The Spider, May 9, 2013
    The Spider, May 9, 2013
    #14
  15. MadcapMaxie

    MadcapMaxie Guest

    A lot of the time he didn't even "clinch" against Frazier just yanked his head down and leaned on him.
     
    MadcapMaxie, May 9, 2013
    MadcapMaxie, May 9, 2013
    #15
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