Frazier's Chin

Are you telling us that Wlad got no cheen ?

 

A fighter with a good chin most certainly can be dropped 6 times. How many people could stand there and take flush, clean power punches from Foreman? You can name the number of people on 1 hand who could do that. Just because Frazier got knocked about by a heavyweight who was most likely the 2nd hardest puncher of all time does not mean his chin is bad.

 

After Bonavena I, Jimmy Cannon wrote that Joe didn't really have the chin to support his style of fighting. However, Ringo subsequently failed to drop him again in their rematch.

Bob Foster's power seemed to completely disappear even against small heavyweight contenders like Doug Jones. Nonetheless, it should be acknowledged that he did connect solidly on Smoke to no avail. Jerry Quarry, a respectable puncher, never buckled him. Manuel Ramos did nail him with several excellent uppercuts, but only one really knocked Joe upright for an instant. After Jamaica, Bugner came off the deck to catch Frazier coming in with a right which buckled Smoke, but the bell rang before Bugner had a chance to follow up effectively. Frazier may have been in very serious trouble if that shot had landed in mid round.

Jumbo Cummings knocked Frank Bruno silly at the conclusion of round one, but was never able to dent a fat and old Frazier like that. Jimmy Ellis did drop Bonavena twice, and landed well on Joe, to no apparent effect. Mathis handed the rugged Wepner his first career knockdown and was a fast starter whose power failed to make much of an impression on Frazier.

It would have been interesting to see Smoke against a top shelf puncher other than Foreman, like Mac Foster, Lyle or Shavers, but instead he rematched an opponent who handily defeated all three. Not Joe's fault none of them could get past Jerry Quarry. If Mac Foster had gotten by JQ, then Mac, not Bob, may have been the Foster to challenge Smoke in late 1970. That was the only real window of opportunity to see how a peak, pre FOTC Frazier might have responded to top shelf power, and the counter punching Mac surely would have tested his chin early.

For me, his chin was respectable enough. He did get through four complete rounds without hitting the deck in the Foreman rematch, getting out of several tight spots in the process. Among the victims George stopped in his first career, only Peralta II lasted longer without the vanquished tasting the canvas.

Smoke's stature and style guaranteed he was going to get hit. Nobody completed more rounds against Ali than he did, and he never went down. True, Ali was not known as a hard puncher, but he could hit when he sat down on his shots and loaded up. He hit Joe hard enough and often enough to swell up his face, but only came close to flooring him with that bomb of a right hand late in round two of that middle fight.

 

Frazier wasn't just standing there and taking the punches; he was still bobbing and weaving throughout much of Foreman's barrage.The initial punch that put him down was a glancing uppercut.




Foreman fought plenty of fighters that managed to last longer than two rounds and didn't get dropped six times in the process.And regardless of how hard a fighter hits,getting destroyed in the manner that Frazier was - with it being against the only puncher Frazier ever fought - is going to raise questions about his punch resistance(or lack of it,in this case) against the big punchers.

 

Just because Frazier was bobbing and weaving it doesn't mean he wasn't getting hit with big punches from one of the hardest punchers of all time.

Foreman fought plenty of fighters that managed to not hit the deck that many times, but few even were able to rise 6 times like Frazier was. Also few had the come forward, crouching style that Frazier had that put his head right in position for George's hardest punches.

Frazier fought plenty of hard punchers other than Foreman. He fought Bonavena, Quarry, Mathis, Bugner, Cummings, and even Ali could punch hard when he really tried to take someone out (the way he did against Frazier, Foreman, and Williams) and they all failed to drop Joe, with the exception of Frazier's first fight with Bonavena.

 

Decent post except it excludes the fact he fought his career blind in one eye , ensuring he was going to get hit hard given his style of fighting from blind spots no less ... I don't see Dempsey or Marciano, two fighters with similar styles, having proven to have better chins ... Dempsey was dropped many times in his career and on film we see him rocked by Carpentier and Brennan, dropped three times by Firpo, rocked by Sharkey and staggered multiple times and once dropped by Tunney ... and that's only on film ... Marciano really did not fight great punchers but was dropped and rocked by Walcott, dropped by Moore and rocked badly by Lowery .. my point is that their style of fighting exposed fighters to the most risk ... it was far from safety first and not for the faint of heart ...

 

As already noted in this thread,Wladimir Klitschko was knocked down four times and always got back up against Corrie Sanders,and that never stopped anyody from douting Wladimir's punch resistance - and Corrie Sanders was a hell of a puncher himself.Truth is,fighters with a good punch resistance can withstand such assault and don't get bounced around like a ball.



Frazier wasn't getting hit flush through every shot that Foreman threw,and like I already said,it was a glancing uppercut that originally put him down.When Foreman made contact with oreman - whether it landed flush or not - he hurt Frazier.This is not the sign of a fighter with a good chin.




And no,Bugner and Mathis were not noted punchers.Quarry was an attrition puncher,at best,and Bonavena was more noted for his physical strength rather than his actual punching ability.

A "fact" that conveniently came to light many years after he had retired.And a "fact" that not even Eddie Futch himself was aware of.

 

I guess you didn't know either that Frazier avoided recommended cataract surgery well before the FOTC.

Are you just a Frazier hater or are you legitimately trying to find argument against him with your opinion as the base for your facts?

 

How do you know that Futch wasn't aware of it? Did you sit down and talk to Eddie before he died? Which heavyweight fighters past and present have you actually talked to.

Me? Chuvalo, Holmes, Ruddock, Egerton Marcus, Ken Lakusta.

 

Da. Wlad chin's like Frazier's is suspect to punchers, and he can be stunned by solid shots. Unlike Frazier, Wlad is a master clincher, and few can get past his jab.

 

I love Frazier and I rate his chin pretty highly but most people point to the fact that he didn't fare well against the best punchers he faced(Foreman, Bonavena) although I always counter that balance was a green Frazier's main problem against Ringo. Besides these 2, the best punchers he faced were Quarry and Chuvalo and he took their best shots very well.

 

How about the fact that he took Bonavena's best the other twenty four rounds he fought him ? Tooth and nail ...

 

The 'chinniness' of both men has been exaggerated, IMO.

Wlad's chin is at least on a par with Lennox's.


And Frazier's chin only ever let him down against the (arguably) hardest puncher in all of boxing.

 

I respect all that Wlad has been able to accomplish but feel his chin is far inferior to Lewis' .. Lennox's was not terrific in it's own right but Wlad has true glass which is why he fights in the safety first manner that he does. I honestly place it in the category of a Bruce Seldon or Mike Williams ... no better.

 

Lennox was put out for the count of 10 with one punch from Rahman.

Wlad took several shots from the much harder hitting Sanders and got up each time before matters were stopped.

I don't believe either man has a glass chin. Neither would be classed iron, but a lot of unwarranted mythology has been built up around both names.