Frazier's Private Thoughts

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mcvey, Apr 24, 2020.


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  1. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    I've always thought Frazier supporters have played up Frazier's health problems entirely too much.Basically stating that by the time Foreman fought him he was but a facsimile of the fighter he had been, crucially this being down to the punishment he received in FOTC.I'm very sceptical of this,and have been reading some soundbites David Wolf made during that timescale.Wolf was in Frazier's camp for all the Ali fights and later went on to manage Donny Lalonde and Ray Mancini
    Here are some of the notes Wolf made at the time.
    Frazier watched the Ali v Patterson first fight and disliked how Ali went about the fight.
    "I feel like why take advantage of a great champ.Once he was a great champion.And if you're gonna knock the man out,go ahead and knock him out.You don't suffer people
    especially a good athlete.After seeing him play around with Patterson,I felt like I could straighten that out.Why pick on somebody like that,try me?
    Wold noted that Frazier was disdainful of Bonavena and overconfident,but after the fight felt he had lost.
    Frazier was upset whenJoe |Louis picked Chuvalo to beat him but Yank Durham told him Joe is paid to make a prediction and told whom to pick.Frazier was disappointed to think Louis was in such a position.
    ."I was surprised why a man like him go through these scenes.Seems like a man could stand up for what he believe,and not have to chose whom somebody else say.I always thought,if I could be like Joe Louis,I'd have it made,thinking about it was depressing."
    I'll post some more later ,its a pain doing it on this lap top.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2020
    mcvey, Apr 24, 2020
    mcvey, Apr 24, 2020
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  2. Eye of Timaeus

    Eye of Timaeus Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Frazier was a good fighter for his time. But I think of all the great heavyweights of the past he would be the least successful during these current times.
     
    Eye of Timaeus, Apr 24, 2020
    Eye of Timaeus, Apr 24, 2020
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  3. Flash24

    Flash24 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    This wasn't the topic.
     
    Flash24, Apr 24, 2020
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  4. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    Just responding to one portion of the post. I think Joe Louis probably picked Chuvalo to beat Frazier simply because he was a long proven contender while Frazier was still a prospect. Not entirely unreasonable
     
    mr. magoo, Apr 24, 2020
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  5. andrewe

    andrewe Ezekiel 33 banned Full Member

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    No. Kenny Norton would be for the 70s era heavyweights.
    Frazier is more successful than almost every pre-1960 heavyweight, if they fought today. That means Marciano, Louis, Tunney, Dempsey, etc.

    Frazier is one helluva fighter, would beat Ruiz JR, AJ, not wilder or Fury though.
     
    andrewe, Apr 24, 2020
    andrewe, Apr 24, 2020
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  6. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Joe Louis did a stint in the mid 60s where he was an "advisor" to Chuvalo.
     
    Dubblechin, Apr 24, 2020
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  7. The Morlocks

    The Morlocks Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I think the complete opposite. Frazier would run over todays batch like a bulldozer running over a donut.
     
    The Morlocks, Apr 24, 2020
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  8. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Frazier like many other greats with short comings just wanted it more then the other guy. Heard Emmanuel talking about determination as a winning factor for certain fighters and that defined a man like Frazier. Seemed like an honorable man not surprised he didn’t like Ali toying w Patterson.
     
    Gazelle Punch, Apr 24, 2020
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  9. RulesMakeItInteresting

    RulesMakeItInteresting Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Me too. But I'm talking specifically the Frazier of the FOTC.

    Muhammad Ali was still a great fighter and without question easily the best fighter in the world the year Frazier beat him. Three years later he went on to beat an even greater ATG in Foreman. So, Joe's victory was especially sensational for those facts alone. That's forgetting the fact that...

    just look in his eyes during that fight. Has anyone here ever seen that look on ANY of the current "champions"' faces...EVER? Not me, and I watch a whole bunch of heavyweight fights. Even the Joe who lost to Foreman...what would Wilder or Joshua or Ruiz do if he kept getting back up, ready to fight? Poop themselves, that's what.

    Just my opinion. When you talk about Joe Frazier...only guys like Louis, Ali, Holyfield, and Holmes had anywhere near that kind of Championship heart. And on that night, he would have beat any and all of the above (ANY)….that most certainly includes Fury (chop chop chop! down goes that Jethro-Bodean-lookin-mutha****a!)
     
    RulesMakeItInteresting, Apr 24, 2020
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  10. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft He Who Saw The Deep Full Member

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    Please. He'd kick Wilder's ass
     
    George Crowcroft, Apr 24, 2020
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  11. Dance84

    Dance84 Unicorn and seastar land Full Member

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    I think those are just fans making excuses for their hero. Foreman always would have fraizers number due to styles
     
    Dance84, Apr 24, 2020
    Dance84, Apr 24, 2020
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  12. LoadedGlove

    LoadedGlove Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Dave Woolf managed Curry ? By the time he fought Colin Jones, Dave Gorman was his Manager.
     
    LoadedGlove, Apr 24, 2020
    LoadedGlove, Apr 24, 2020
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  13. Fastfists

    Fastfists New Member Full Member

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    Frazier? Did you watch him the tape of him against Ali in 71? ESPN last week. He would hurt , i mean hurt heavyweights today. Never stopped punching for 15 rounds... And I do not like Ali as a person but he fought a helluve fight too. Frazier would break Wilders ribs, put R uiz in the hospital, and completely beat up Fury. Like Chuvalo
     
    Fastfists, Apr 24, 2020
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  14. navigator

    navigator "Billy Graham? He's my man." banned Full Member

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    I'd previously come across these in a Hauser article, but it was good to read them again. Joe was a real straight kind of a guy.

    He could be neuropsychologically damaged as a result of Ali I and still be capable of making these observations. I don't think it was the case, though, at least not in an immediately consequential way. George was just wrong for him.

    Actually, I could imagine the elderly, bowed Smoke making these observations just about the same.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2020
    navigator, Apr 24, 2020
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  15. Fastfists

    Fastfists New Member Full Member

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    Fastfists, Apr 24, 2020
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