Hoping to learn a bit more about Dawson in this thread and would appreciate peoples thought on him. Hailing from Chicago Dawson is one of best boxers never to win a title, his series of bouts with Ike Williams are a stand out on his resume and seems unlucky to have not gotten the nod for atleast one of those bouts. He finished his career with a very popular stint in Australia. In possibly the biggest fight in Oz of the era, Dawson rose after being dropped by Vic Patrick in the 10th (or 11th) round to flatten Patrick in the 12th. Also fought Jack Hassen, Alfie Sands and George Barnes. He is still spoken about fondly by the oldtimers that saw him as the greatest boxer who came to these shores. [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccH6Xos6mck[/ame]
I wrote a wee thingie on him on ESB a while back I'll dig it out. Surf bat knows abit baout his figts with Williams
B, you are correct in saying Freddie Dawson was a great lightweight in that rich era of great 135 pound fighters in the 1940s. His nemesis was the great Ike Williams who beat Dawson several times those days. In my eyes Dawson belonged in the great quartet of Ike Williams, Bob Montgomery, Beau Jack, Willie Joyce, along with the tough Sammy Angott. What fun these boys would have today !.He also fought welterweights as Johnny Bratton, Johnny Saxton, Tommy Bell,all great fighters of those days. I saw them all except Dawson who didn't fight much in the NY area. Of course in his later years as you know he was a great success down under. Cheers.
Thank you for reply Burt, i appreciated mate. I'm some what more familiar with his Australian opponents, his American career is a little more unfamiliar to me. You've given me some names to look more into, Willie Joyce is completely new name to me.
You're not wrong about his stint in Australia mate. Freddie pretty much cleaned out every top line Australian fighter from lightweight to welter in a very rich era in Oz boxing. Along with the guys you mentioned he also stopped the likes of Bernie Hall,Eddie Miller,Len Dittmar,Norm Gent and Barry Brown (who I think was a Kiwi but I'll count him). In fact I don't think a single Australian fighter lasted the distance with him until the teak tough Barnes went the full journey. His fight with Patrick is considered one of the best fights fought in this country with the quicker,flashier Dawson getting away to an early lead over the awkward Aussie until Patrick started finding his range with his deadly left. Vic looked to have turned the tables when he put Freddie through the ropes only for Dawson to hold and survive and then turn the tables in the 12th. Here's a link of some old photo's of their fight,unfortunately I'm not sure if any film of it is availiable. http://www.nla.gov.au/apps/cdview?pi=nla.pic-vn3792651
Bernie Hall also went the 12 round distance with Freddie Dawson in their first fight. In the rematch Bernie was ko'd in the 12th round. In regard to film of the Patrick-Dawson fight, there is film around. Parts of the bout were included in the video "That's Boxing", a history of Australian boxing.
Thx mate. I think in end Patrick became one of Dawson's biggest advocates. I've read a few articles he wrote (along the lines..) that Dawson was a benchmark for serious Australian boxers to attain to.
posted this awhile ago in another thread, will post a couple more if i get round to it. PATRICK AGREES WITH DAWSON... Our Boxers Lacking In Ríngecraft AUSTRALIAN boxers have forgotten the tremendous value of ringcraft. That's what Freddie Dawson meant last week when he said that the majority of Australian fighters were right hand crazy. Dawson has not missed a trick in summing up what is wrong with Australian boxing. He is right in everything he says about the Australian method of fighting and training. Definitely Australian fighters are right hand crazy. All they want to do is to throw the right hand over and end the fight. They don't seem to get the idea that before a fighter can effectively throw the damaging right he has to get his opponent set to receive it. All that takes ring craft. You just can't walk up to a good class fighter and knock him down. Nine times out of ten the fighter that goes in for the "kill" without any premeditated campaign will find himself on the receiving end. Most of the fighters in Australia seem to miss out on the essentials of the boxing game.The excuse is lack of experience. When they bump into a boxer who knows how to use his hands well and thoroughly and they get a beating they claim that they "haven't been around." I would say that most of our preliminary boys step into the fight ring with a very scanty knowledge of the basic principles of boxing. Since I have been refereeing fights I have been astounded how few boxers in Australia know how to get their balance to place punches. People are under the belief that boxers are born. Certainly good fighters have come into the game with a certain amount of natural ability, but they would have got nowhere without having been taught the basic principles of boxing and a sound method of conditioning. The natural fighter has a punch, but he must be shown how and when to use it.It's the same in every sport, the beginner always wants to start the wrong way.The art of boxing seemed to have disappeared from the game in Australia when Jack Carroll retired. Carroll was probably the best boxer Australia had from the time when the great Albert Griffo dazzled the world.Carroll was like a will-o'-the wisp. The first time I saw him fight he seemed to me to be all arms and legs. He made use of the ring and threw punches like greased lightning. And he was a hard man to hit. I was never a boxer. Maybe I wasn't a good example to the young boxer in Australia.I won most of my fights the easiest way the knockout. The quicker the better. But I had studied balance and I knew the right time to rip over the left. I was, of course, a southpaw. Before I ever thought of entering the fight game I knew how to use the gloves and place a few punches.I used to go along to Ern McQuillan's gymnasium and pay two shillings a week to be shown how to use the gloves. I suppose the fight game had a fascination for me. I used to read all the fight reports in the newspapers, go to the Stadium when I had enough money to pay my way into the bleachers, and read every book that had anything about fight that I could lay my hands on. I was naturally a hard puncher. Whenever I got the chance I was in the ring at McQuillan's gymnasium, sparring. Soon I wanted a real fight. Thought I would go all rights It came along, and I knocked out Les Shocker in three rounds at Carlton Stadium in a four round preliminary. I won seven fights in a row with knockouts, and knew that I could really punch. But very often in my career I was glad that I had learned the basic principles of boxing and knew how to protect myself, and was able to stop punches from landing. When I began to meet fighters who knew something about the game I soon found out that a punch to the chin wasn't everything about winning a fight. They called me one of the greatest punchers Australia had produced. But by that time I knew that hard punching was a waste of time if it wasn't planned beforehand. Most of our boys just want to throw punches and see their opponent battered down in double quick-time. What they forget is that while they are walking up throwing punches a good, cool boxer can pick them off and wait for the right time to make his return. Dawson was an object lesson to Australian boxers. There was the ideal boxer fighter. He beat Jack Hassen, Norm Gent, and Jean Mougin all the same way. He boxed each of them into a position when he could just go ahead and deliver the knockout punch without any fear of it missing out. And what is more, he didn't get hurt doing it. Dawson showed the benefit of having started at the bottom of the rung by learning the basic principles of boxing and building around it a solid knowledge of ringcraft on his wayup. In Dawson, young Australian boxers saw the polished boxer fighter with a scheming fighting brain. Harry Rudolph, manager of Freddie Dawson and Johnny Toth, who is looking after Henry Brimm, places considerable value on roadwork. I didn't do any roadwork because I didn't like it. Roadwork might have done me a lot of good. I don't know. I made up for it with plenty of skipping and shadow sparring. I was able to pace it with anybody I met. But if trainers like Harry Rudolph and Johnny Toth place so much faith in roadwork, they must know what they are talking about. I advise young boxers in Australia to accept any advice handed out to them from Rudolph or Toth. I also agree with Harry Rudolph that the small windbag does a lot to speed up punches. Vital Assets. Condition and speed are the two vital assets of the boxer. Most of Australian boxers train hard. Some train too hard and leave a lot of it in the gymnasium when they step into the ring for the fight. Punching the small windbag, skipping, shadow sparring, and fast sparring partners will get a boxer into condition. This method of training will keep him working hard and fast and not prove a heavy drag that will burn up his energy. A lot of Australian boxers spar too hard. They make a gymnasium spar almost a fight. A spar in a gymnasium should be a battle of wits to sharpen the eye and speed up the punches.The fighter receives enough hard punches in the actual fight. I used to punch the heavy bag until 1 found out it wasn't doing me any good. I switched to a swivel bag suspended from the ceiling of the gymnasium and attached to the floor. The bag weighed about 151b. It was fast and I had to move fast. I do not agree that Australian boxing is In the doldrums. The topline fighters in each division in Australia are good fighters. But I do agree with Harry Rudolph that there are not enough good fighters in each division.We want more fighters from America, England, and Europe to give our boys experience. American fighters on the rise can gain world recognition by coming to Australia and earn more money than they can in their own country. This content is protected This content is protected Top This content is protected
I love that doco :yep Bernie Hall was a tough SOB, but still very surprised to hear he went twelve with Dawson
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hROsXHyd5Wk[/ame] 4:40 [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dg7_JTGLQs[/ame] 1:55
Boxing historian Ray Mitchell completed a manuscript for a biography about Dawson long ago. I don't know why it was never published.
Freddie Dawson, Johnny Bratton, Willie Joyce...all excellent fighters of that era who could have been champs at almost any other time.
As promised: Freddie Dawson Freddie Dawson was one of the best Lightweights of the 1940’s and 1950’s. A clever bobbing and weaving inside fighter he used brilliant feints and bobbing to land hard counter punches on his opponents, in particular his right cross. He also seemed a good ring general as he often forced himself upon his opponent and made them get into an inside fight where Dawson showed really good bodywork. His strength seems to be his strength and cleverness as he was a tough inside/pressure fighter. His weakness seems to be bad luck in many decisions; from my research I see no outstanding weakness. Throughout the 40s (prime years 1946-1951) he was a leading contender for the Lightweight throne, especially when it was held by his nemesis Ike Williams. From about the mid 40s when he was halted by Ike Williams in 4 rounds he went on a run that brought him title contention. With wins over Gene Burton, Ace Millar, Bobby McQuillar, Joe Brown and Sammy Daniels. He was probably the leading Lightweight contender, or at least one of them, from about 1946 to 1948. After drawing with Ike Williams in 1946 till challenging Williams in 1951 for the title, Dawson went on a run of 33 wins and only dropping 4 very controversial decisions (notably to Johnny Bratton and Ike Williams where the crowd favored Dawson). And getting two draws (one to a young Gene Burton). During that period he achieved his greatest victory in upsetting the Welterweight hopeful Bernard Docuson in 6 rounds. After fighting Williams for the title he moved up to Welterweight and didn’t have the best of form, but did post wins over Tommy Bell and Virgil Akins as well as having a successful tour of Australia, but he was past his prime and undersized. His fights with Williams seem to have been very controversial in the first fight he was stopped fairly in 6 rounds but the second fight, which was scored a draw seems to have been a robbery with one newspaper scoring it 7-3 in favor of Dawson, the referee scoring it 5-5 but in Dawson’s favor and the crowd booing the Draw decision. The 10 round non-title defeat to Williams seems to have been a very close affair with Williams getting the official edge in an even bout. The last fight, which was for the title is very odd. Before the bout Williams was scared he would lose a decision, but Dawson put on a great show of swarming Williams and not letting him get set for his punches. His clever feints and counterpunching was looked upon brilliantly in a boring fight where both men went head to head and banged at the body in a messy affair. At the end the crowd booed the decision and felt Dawson won. But what makes this series more impressive is that Dawson proved himself the equal of the great Ike Williams despite being an inside fighter at a huge stylistic disadvantage to the hard hitting Williams. I think Dawson would compete very well today, he was a very capable inside fighter and forced a fast pace with clever counter-punching and feinting. There is no film of Dawson so we cannot see how good he really was, but due to Marquez struggling with another inside fighter in Diaz, I do think Dawson has a chance. He would also beat the lesser guys like Diaz and Funeka whom he would wear down on the inside IMO. But Dawson is a very good fighter in a very good era; he seems to be a bit of a forgotten man, probably due to his raw deals against Williams IMO. Found some footage on Youtube. You Tube ViewMore FromRelated VideosCommentsShareSendFavoriteTwitterFacebook The impression I got from reading is pretty accurate IMO. I was very impressed with his head movement and his cultured left hand. He reminds me probably most with Henry Armstrong.
Some nice stuff here folks. Glad to see the footage too, I didn't know that any existed tbh, only what I'd read about Freddie and looked into a little bit. It all basically backs up what I've come across before. Outstanding fighter who like so many was blighted by the great era that he fought in amongst other things, though he only added to it's terrific depth. To match up so well with Ike Williams when not being a pure boxer type says it all.
