Freddie Roach on Roy Jones-Steve Collins

To be fair, because of his mentality Jones only tended to stop the fighters that really pressed him and were a few notches below Collins.He rarely put any more hurt on someone than was needed to allow him to coast for another wide decision win.

Collins chin was very good\excellent, rather than the impenetrable granite it gets made out to be, but i doubt Jones would stop him.He's capable of it, but would probably settle for a wide decision after getting his respect early.Maybe a few knockdowns in there.

 

No, I don't quite see Jones stepping on the gas and "destroying" Collins myself, but the potential is there. Collins can be hurt, and Jones has the ability to put the hurt on him.

Bodyshots had him very close to going against Kevin Watts. A Jones-Hill situation isn't out of the question here.

 

bet you agree with everything Roach says right? you agree that Toney is the greatest natural ring general ever?

 

i dont think there has ever been a single human being alive that agrees with everything another one of their species says. for example even the most enthusiastic christian, jew or muslim will struggle with some of the fundamental principles of their own religion.

i don't personally believe that "Toney is the greatest natural ring general ever". if freddie roach said that then thats all good and well- great for him.

the premise of your arguement is that roach has said things that may have been wrong and as me and others on this thread hold him in high regard we should feel the need to agree with everything he's said or alternatively some how accept that Jones would have KO'd Collins. Unfortunately things dont necessarily work out that way.

I stick to my original arguement- Roach made an informed opinion that Collins would have beaten Jones and his opinion is more valid then anyone on this site.

 

uh, roach used to train collins. probably no bias there. :roll:

 

But only because that opinion happens to side with yours, of course.


Roach as a fighter was mediocre at best and generally lacking in ring-smarts, good thing that doesn't directly relate to analysing the sport or training.See what i'm hinting at here..

 

Can't see it myself. Collins got Eubank and Benn at the right time and apart from that who did he ever beat?

Easy to say that Jones fought opponents that were past it, what about Collins? Eubank nearly killed the guy in their first fight with a shot and backed off because of what happened with Watson - his trainer was furious after that round as I recall because that was the moment Eubank blew his unbeaten record due to pity.

Eubank hit nowhere near as hard as Jones at 168, and didn't have the skill to hit that hard that often like Jones did. I can't see any other outcome here than a Jones mid round stoppage in a total mis-match.

 

Steve Collins beats Roy Jones now?

Prime Roy Jones is getting shitter and more beatable by the day if you listen to some.Collins is just the type of fighter Roy would've been pissed on for beating up anyway,gutsy,average punch,slow (comparitively) and modestly skilled.

****ing hell on the morning of the fight Jones could play a basketball game,run a half marathon,get some bunions removed from his feet and still beat Steve Collins.

And yes Freddie Roach is conflicted and biased and talking out of his arse about this one,HOF trainer or not.

 

no, i actually disagree with roach and believe jones would have won on points. check my previous posts if there is any uncertainty on this.
Collins got Eubank and Benn at the right time and apart from that who did he ever beat?

 

nearly killed him eh? strange how you can nearly kill someone, fail to get a stoppage and loose a unaminous decision in the one fight. this crap that eubank was past it is bollacks, eubank was actually younger than collins. an unbeaten world champion doesn't loose his heart in the middle of a world title fight. yes, he was never the same after collins and collins was the reason for that.

this watson stuff is shite too, the watson fight was four years previous to this and eubank was in plenty of tear ups after the watson fight. if he lost his ruthlessness and gained an unhealthy compassion after watson then why did it take four years to manifest itself and why did he continue fighting after he was twice beaten by collins???

slightly getting away from the discussion- would collins have beaten jones? i think no- jones would have won but the legacy of a two weight world champion and the best trainer in the world are being attacked on this thread which is outrageous. jones would have won on points

 

good post

let's be honest: collins made his reputation against a gun shy eubank who at least held his own in both fights and a past prime benn. he looked amateurish at times but as greata said, made up for it in toughness and will.

that toughness and will may see him through to the final bell...unless he DOES hurt jones in which case he may get the griffin treatment

 

I apologise...I should have said he was on the A-side meth.

 

fair enough, i appreciate the post was probably in jest. i can get very defensive when it comes to collins.

in all sincerity though we can have a a laugh and a bit of banter about this and thats fair enough but if we're having a serious discussion then we should debate it seriously.

someone asked earlier who collins bet apart from benn and eubank and i never got around to answering it. i think the question first of all is very problematic as you could name any fighter and then question who he defeated bar all his greatest ever victories that defined his career and thats essentially whats been asked here. eubank was a great fighter- defended his wbo belt 15 times before collins took it off him. benn was a great fighter too- beating both of them twice was a massive achievement.

anyway he also beat fredric seillier (euro champ), cornelius carr (british & wbf champ), chris pyatt, (commonwealth, wbo, euro and wbc international champ), dan morgan (twice fought for wba title), sam storey (irish & british champ- fought for euro, commonwealth & wbo titles), kevin watts (US & north american champ), tony thornton (US champ- fought for IBF and wbo titles, craig cummings (north american champ fought for varios world titles), neville brown british champ). granted there not all household names but they are decent fighters with good records. obviously theres the defeats to the body snatcher and johnson which is no disgrace and his loss to kalambay for the euro title.

unfortunatley he never got to get all the fights he wanted i.e. roy jones

 

Tony Thornton and Chris Pyatt are decent wins, but the rest you mentioned are definitely not.

 

i would tend to disagree. some people don't give continental and domestic titles much respect and thats fine. Personally, I have a lot of respect for european titles and british titles and if I lived in north america i would probably be better positioned to make a call on the validity of US and north american titles. unfotunately i don't so you can field that one if you want to.

but even if you disregard most of them fights i've mentioned (and personally I wouldn't) your still acknowledging that he had six great wins in the last six years of his career;

Thornton
Pyatt
Eubank x 2
Benn x 2