Fredie Roach: “Training at high altitude is pointless”

You should read The Sports Gene, by David Epstein. He attributes the success of African runners to the abnormal length of their femurs.

 

Just more examples of how boxing trainers don't believe in science even though they talk a lot of **** about the science of boxing.

I may have to combine a few different threads at this point. The one asking about power in classic, Wilder calling science in boxing a myth, the one asking where power comes from here in General, and this, are all related. They all highlight why you as boxing fans know dick all about kinesiology or even basic physics let alone science.

When talking about technique why is it I never ever hear anyone speak about fundamental physics? You wanna talk about mass and velocity but the difference between power, force, and energy ain't important? What the damn hell guy? I'm sure as a person in total you understand Newton's Third Law just fine, but the second you put on your boxing fan pants it's like you've never heard of equal yet opposite reaction forces. Y'all invoke science but speak on semantics.

From my perspective you get your terms from trainers and the sort and argue in the terms handed down by trainers while forgetting you have at least a third grade understanding of basic physics.

What I'm trying to say is I don't believe youse guys are that damn dumb as hell. I think because you look up to trainers or at least see them as authorities you put away your overall critical thinking and live in their world of semantics and bull**** where the only metric for right and wrong are outcome, not understanding. Look around man, the proof is everywhere. Boxing doesn't know dick about science because boxing trainers don't know dick about science and it's through them, not physicists or kinesiologists, we're told what boxing is and is not, unchecked.

 

that was due to matchmaking rather than Roach.

 

alt account troll exposed.....

 

Altitude training has been shown to increase red blood cell counts in athletes. The effects go away after a couple of weeks back at sea level, but cyclists take EPO for a reason: more red blood cells = more oxygen to the muscles = better endurance.

Heat and humidity are completely different animals. The only way to deal with them is to train for them. I grew up in a flat, hot valley. I played a multitude of sports growing up there. But I live in a very moderate climate now. And although I'm into cycling and am very active now, there's no way I could compete in 100 degree + conditions like I did as a child.

I'm with you on the new ideas stuff. I've never followed any of the fad/alleged super diets. I do carbo load before long rides, though.

 

There’s no debate that altitude training increases red blood cell counts.

There is debate as to how that translates to performance, especially in different sports. Cycling, for instance, favors indurance over explosiveness and strength. So training at altitude for one sport may be better than training for it in another.

But read the summaries (they take about a minute at most) on the studies I linked on this thread — one shows that LIVING at altitude while coming down from the mountain to TRAIN at sea level produces better results; one shows that while training at altitude does increase certain things, in a controlled study it did not translate to measurable improvement in actual competitive performance over a group that trained at sea level; and another shows what we all know to be true, that everyone’s particular physiology is different, and training at altitude does have benefits for some that those benefits are not universal to all (some received no benefit and may have backslid).

So those laws of physics cited in another post are universal ... providing all the controls are the same. But they aren’t. If you do the same procedure to identical androids, you’ll get the same result (chaos theory notwithstanding) ... but your body is different from mine is different from another guy’s.

And while you can see measurable benefits in some areas in some people, and some unquestioned change (red blood cell count increase from altitude training) the margins of how that improves actual performance are debatable ... in fact, a scientific study with control groups training at altitude and non-altitude showed no measurable benefits in actual performance — the swimmers who trained at altitude did not improve their times at a greater rate than the swimmers who trained at sea level.

Hey, when I was coming up, there was a point where bee pollen was touted as the wonder fixer that makes you better at athletics. You took a couple of pills and you’d be faster. It had some properties that science had shown to be benficial that was supposed to make you better. And when they tested it ... placebo effect. You believed you’d be faster, you had more confidence, therefore you improved your speed marginally. But it was all in your mind, the greatest performance enhancer of all.

Yes there are certain substances (banned) that can make you able to train longer and heal faster, no doubt. But aside from those, my personal belief (and I was an athlete — not a great one — in my younger days and I also coached amateur and pro boxers for a time and spent a TON of time debating and asking other coaches what they believed worked) is that the margins on most of these things are negligible on a physical level ... but if you can convince an athlete that standing on his head will make him punch harder, and really make him believe it, he’ll punch a little harder if he stands on his head for 30 minutes a day.

 

Nice. I can tell I'm going to enjoy interacting with you on this forum. I've never been a great athlete either but love to read up on training and nutrition.

 

How do you explain Chris Algieri? Pac couldn't finish him despite having 5 knockdowns, Spence finishes him in 3 rounds.

Couldn't do anything to Rios either, Tim knocked him out ffs. Tim.

No knockouts in 9 years.

Fact of the matter is: Freddie has always been extremely overrated, EXTREMELY.

People keep bringing up the Cotto/Martinez bs to prop him up. It's a bunch of baloney and anyone can see through that!

 

Now that is just stupid. Ill give you your second point but Sr? gtfoh

 

most trainers are overrated. But look what happened when Pacman opened up against Marquez?

 

Who needs altitude when you drink Ariza Shakes?