Froch - HOF Yes or No?

I know you hate Calzaghe and neither of us are going to convince the other to agree to the others opinion on him or his career, but here is question I'm legitimately interested in hearing you answer.

Other than Ottke - who shares at least equal blame for the failure to make a fight - who would you class as "really good opponents" that were in the Super Middleweight division during Calzaghe's career that he could have fought but didn't?

 

you just said it wasn't joes accomplishments at smw that made him hof.

now you are back to that special Cowardzaghe way of contradicting yourself ENITERLY.

obviously not as simple as you want it to be, eh.

 

Kessler uninjured home
Glen Johnson
Antwun Echols
Froch as Commonwealth champ from 2006 onwards.
Byron Mitchell rematch after the fake stoppage.


in fact that's all the ones he would potentially lose.

he didn't duck no weaklings, odd that eh?

And you are wrong I think Calzaghe was a really good fighter, don't put words in my mouth. its rude for you to say such things about our Brit hero.

 

where's ward hiding?

people said froch would get ktfo vs abraham

 

Kessler himself dismissed the story of him having suffered a hand injury prior to the fight: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/boxing/7069703.stm

"It's been a four-month camp and everything has gone so well, I don't know where any talk of injury has come from," said Kessler, ahead of Saturday's bout at Cardiff's Millennium Stadium
​

Two points to make here.

1 - Johnson was never a "really good" Super Middleweight. He's never been effective in the division.

2 - Johnson would have got his shot at Calzaghe if he'd beaten Sheika - he lost. He was asked to rearange the date for a fight in 2004 following an injury to Calzaghe's nortiously brittle hand, he refused because he wanted Roy Jones Jr instead and said he would never have anything to do with Calzaghe again. Despite that they agreed to a fight about two years later provided Johnson could beat Clinton Woods in their rubbermatch - he lost.

Point being, Johnson was not blameless in the failure of that fight happening so you cant just rage against Calzaghe as if it was all his fault.

Never a force in the Super Middleweight Division, and only a contender/gatekeeper in the Middleweight division.

I'll give you that Froch would have been a legitimate challenger in 2006/2007/2008, but Lacy, Kessler and Hopkins were undeniably more important than him, and Jones could bring a much bigger payday, and Bika was just as legitimate opponent as him. The only opponent Calzaghe fought during that period that Froch could, at the time, be considered a more meaningful opponent than was Manfredo but was a fight taken purely to raise Calzaghe's profile in America which is something Froch couldn't have done.

So, yeah, it would have been a good name on his resume at the time, made into a great one considering what Froch went on to achieve, but given the run of opponents Calzaghe had during that period it's not like he can be accuse of taking on a host of lesser challenges while avoiding Froch.

Mitchell retired after his loss to Calzaghe and didn't come back for four years, and was never a force in the division again. I agree that deserved a rematch and that the stoppage was dodgy, but he removed himself from contention. Regardless, he cant be counted because Calzaghe fought him and the question was legitimate challenges that he didn't fight.

Frankly, if those five names are the only ones you can come up with from Calzaghe's 14 years in the division and 10 years on the world - and only three of them actually being forces within the Super Middleweight division itself - it just goes to show the weakness in depth that the division suffered through those years, and that with the exception of Ottke and, arguably, Froch Calzaghe fought all the legitimate challengers available to him in the division during his active years.

No, I didn't you didn't think Calzaghe was a really good fighter, only that you hate him and that you and I will never convince each other to change our opinions on him.

 

the xray doesn't dismiss the hand injury though. Kessler is a brave soul not to mention it though. wereas cowardzaghe brought up hand injuries atevery conceivable opportunity.

but hes southpaw, who might well have caused joe problems. joe knew it and miraculously ... hand injuries, say no more.

they all bring good paydays 4 fights in 4 years is no different to 5 fights in 4 years if you were to include froch.

.

Mitchell wanted a rematch before he retired, but yeah true that joe cherrypicked Byron at his weakest before retirement.

... those were the ones I came up with in two minutes. If I am prepared at some point to dredge through boxrec against my wishes, I might at some point.

well now you know that I think hes damn good. I can easily quote myself from 1 year ago saying that. So you should pay more attention before you want to make sweeping statements.

but I wont hold it against you, you seem a nice guy.

 

Ward is retired and belongs in the classic forum... Andre who?

 

Still wasn't a force in the Super Middleweight division at any time in his career, and still carries some burden of responsibility for the failure of a fight against Calzaghe ever happening.

Just one fight and three months removed from being robbed against Ottke counts as Mitchell's "weakest"?

Then I'll look forward to it if you ever get round to it.

Again, I never said anything about you saying Calzaghe wasn't a good fighter, just that our opinions differ on him and we're unlikely to change our minds. Largely the differance is that you acuse him of cowardice and ducking people and I dont, I acuse him of lacking ambition and being perfectly happy not to have challenging fight is he was making good money without them. It's a fundamental difference in mindset.

 

including sven in your argument largely weakens it, he makes joe's cowardzaghiness look like Sugar Ray.

that would be nice if you ever read it.

fair enough anyone is entitled to embrace cowardzaghiness should they wish.

 

You must be high or drunk. Froch's resume shits all over Dawson

 

its pretty hard to be the man at SMW if you don't defeat the main players (which calzaghe did)
you're dancing around the fact that calzaghe was the man at SMW and froch wasn't
stop being one of these posters with rose-tinted glasses who has to favor froch over calzaghe 'no matter what' - because it's not even close when comparing what they accomplished at SMW

 

Is this the Brit Forum?

 

Froch is a world champion, don't see a problem discussing him in the general?

 

Of course

 

I know atsch